Public vs private kulo?

[Vajramusti]

Keith, I've already acknowledged this (bolded section above) in post #20. I never dismissed Ku lo village Wing Chun. I have no knowledge of it beyond youtube and the information you have posted. I do think it's important to be able to disagree politely and counter mis-information with better information as you have since done.

Look, two years ago this month I lost my mother, a brilliant and creative woman, to dementia. It wasn't easy. So when you threw out that comment at Joy, I reacted strongly. Joy does have his beliefs, and clearly it is important to him that his si-gung, Ho Kam Ming had a very long association with GM Yip, possibly the longest of any of Yip Man's students.

Other's may not think that the number of years spent with a sifu is the best way to measure skill ...any more than you can judge the value a painting by measuring its dimensions. As I stated before, my own sifu openly stated that his time as a personal student with GM Yip was brief, yet I believe his kung-fu was very good. Others have rudely disagreed. Whatever! The simple truth is that informative comments, like the one of yours that quoted above, do more to change a reasonable person's mind than angry responses.

Now there are also a few blatantly unreasonable folks on this forum. Neither information nor scathing invective seems to get through to them. That's when I take a deep breath and move on.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NB: I don't have a problem with anyone learning gu lo. I don't care to, that is all.

 

[KPM]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NB: I don't have a problem with anyone learning gu lo. I don't care to, that is all.

And no one is asking you to. But please refrain from saying disparaging and untrue things about the Ku Lo Wing Chun system.

 

[Vajramusti]

And no one is asking you to. But please refrain from saying disparaging and untrue things about the Ku Lo Wing Chun system.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's July 4.I can give my opinion on Kung Fu including ku lo, as a system. My comments were to the list
and not directed at you KPM

 

[KPM]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's July 4.I can give my opinion on Kung Fu including ku lo, as a system. My comments were to the list
and not directed at you KPM

But your opinion is wrong. I have clearly pointed out why it is wrong. Why can you not see that? And why would you assume that your opinion...based only on watching some youtube videos and spending a couple of hours talking to Jim Roselando, would carry more weight than mine....when I have actually studied the system and have been granted instructor status in that system? I just don't see why you carry such a grudge against the Ku Lo system that you cannot see simple reason. Or is Steve right, and you are just one of several here who are "blatantly unreasonable folks on this forum. Neither information nor scathing invective seems to get through to them"??? Because to anyone reading along, it certainly seems that way!

 

[geezer]

...Or is Steve right, and you are just one of several here who are "blatantly unreasonable folks on this forum. Neither information nor scathing invective seems to get through to them"??? Because to anyone reading along, it certainly seems that way!

Please don't drag me into this. I was definitely not referring to Joy when I mentioned "unreasonable people". For the last time, when people disagree, present your side, and then move on. There is no reason to make it personal.

 

[KPM]

Please don't drag me into this. I was definitely not referring to Joy when I mentioned "unreasonable people". For the last time, when people disagree, present your side, and then move on. There is no reason to make it personal.

But he has made it personal. Who else here represents Ku Lo Wing Chun but me? How would you like it if every time you mentioned DTE escrima in a thread someone popped up to say that it wasn't a "real" form of escrima? I HAVE presented my side, multiple times, but he persists in slandering Ku Lo Wing Chun. I'm sorry, but any time he posts inaccurate and untrue statements about Ku Lo Wing Chun, I will speak up. I owe that to my teachers!

But, I think we are likely both right to a degree. My own father is 84 now and it is getting increasingly more difficult to carry on a coherent phone conversation with him when I call to check on him on the weekends.

Joy, take care of yourself!

 

[wckf92]

I guess this won't be helpful but I can kind of see both Geezers and KPM's points on this.
KPM is speaking up for his art/system/teachers...
Geez is basically saying...agree to disagree and move on.
From my own experience on here...a certain individual from a certain lineage had typed some negative comments about an elder in my line. It got my blood boiling in about 3 seconds...but I withdrew from the keyboard for a while, not wanting to type a response while I was angry, etc. Then it occurred to me: this highly-opinionated individual is just an uninformed nobody on a keyboard thousands of miles away. Once I had realized that, I actually laughed to myself, ignored his negative comment, and moved on...IOW... don't fight force with force.

 

[Jens]

wckf92, what's your wing chun background and where are you located?

wckf92, I haven't received a reply in regards to your wck linage

 

[KPM]

A new one from Jim Roselando. Just a collection of "self defense moves"??

 

[geezer]

A new one from Jim Roselando. Just a collection of "self defense moves"?

That just looks like Wing Chun to me.

I'e seen similar Chi Sau drills a lot of places. That part where he says "like two snakes going down a hole" is (or should be) a pretty universal WC idea. I'm constantly saying "Be fluid. Flow in. Fill the hole!"

 

[KPM]

^^^ If you watch closely, you'll be able to spot the major difference between the Pin Sun roll and the Ip Man roll. Ip Man roll goes more or less "up and down". The Pin Sun roll is a coiling action....hence the saying "two snakes searching for the opening." You don't simply drop from Bong to Tan, you actually circle the partners forearm on the way down.....like a snake! ;-)

 

[geezer]

ou don't simply drop from Bong to Tan, you actually circle the partners forearm on the way down.....like a snake! ;-)

Although that is not our standard or "default" mode, we do train something similar to that which we call woon-sau. And of course there is some huen-sau/woon sau involved any time you circle around change and hand positions from tan sau/inside gate to fook sau/outside gate, etc.

 

[Danny T]

Although that is not our standard or "default" mode, but we do train something similar to that which we call woon-sau. And of course there is some huen-sau/woon sau involved any time you circle around change and hand positions from tan sau/inside gate to fook sau/outside gate, etc.

We do a version of this as well and it is a screwing action to meet in the middle and not just a up/down or rolling action.

 

[geezer]

We do a version of this as well and it is a screwing action to meet in the middle and not just a up/down or rolling action.

There are just soooo many tempting responses to that comment.


Instead, let's just say ...I concur.

 

[Danny T]

There are just soooo many tempting responses to that comment.


Instead, let's just say ...I concur.

Yeah...when I posted this my thought was; "someone is going to have fun with this".

 

[PiedmontChun]

^^^ If you watch closely, you'll be able to spot the major difference between the Pin Sun roll and the Ip Man roll. Ip Man roll goes more or less "up and down". The Pin Sun roll is a coiling action....hence the saying "two snakes searching for the opening." You don't simply drop from Bong to Tan, you actually circle the partners forearm on the way down.....like a snake! ;-)

Not to derail the thread at all but I was genuinely curious about the video you posted. Is this the normal, typical rolling for this lineage, or something that is trained separately? The action itself is very similar to how I learned in WT to "switch" from one side to the other while rolling without disengaging at all, i.e. my tan / bong becomes fook and my partner vice-versa.

 

[KPM]

^^^Yes, this is the "typical" or "normal" rolling platform for Ku Lo Pin Sun Wing Chun. Some have also adopted the "Ip Man" rolling platform so that they can play with others.

 

[Marnetmar]

Not to derail the thread at all but I was genuinely curious about the video you posted. Is this the normal, typical rolling for this lineage, or something that is trained separately? The action itself is very similar to how I learned in WT to "switch" from one side to the other while rolling without disengaging at all, i.e. my tan / bong becomes fook and my partner vice-versa.

Wait, does that mean most WC guys don't do this? I learned something new today. Maybe it's something exclusive to Leung Sheung guys which technically includes Leung Ting.

 

[KPM]

^^^^^ Maybe so! This "coiling" action that is in the video and that I tried to describe is not part of the Ip Man systems that I have seen and trained. Other than as a transition between sides, as was previously mentioned.

 

[KPM]

Resurrecting this old thread, for anyone that cares to read through it, because it illustrates several of the points that I made on the "Pin Sun & WIng Chung Boxing" thread that was locked. Not trying to stir anything up again. Just supporting what I wrote in that other thread.