Proficiency? Effort? Accomplishments? Spirit? What makes an MAist?

[Kung Fu Wang]

So according to you, Bela Karolyi should never have taught gymnastics?

If I can't lift a 200 lb guy over my shoulder, I will not teach "fireman's carry" throw. But I can still teach "single leg".

 

[CB Jones]

Again, so is it your opinion Bela Karolyi never should have taught gymnastics?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you are too old and no longer be able to do a floor split, how can you ask your student to train that in your class? As a teacher, you should not ask your students to do something that you can't do yourself.

I disagree. You should ask your students to do what is right for their training, regardless of whether you can do it, yourself. So long as you can effectively teach it, there's nothing wrong with doing so. If my back ever gets bad enough that I can't take the high falls off things like shoulder throws, I'll still require students to take those falls.

 

[Headhunter]

If you are too old and no longer be able to do a floor split, how can you ask your student to train that in your class? As a teacher, you should not ask your students to do something that you can't do yourself.

No because they used to be able to do it and learnt how to do it but simply can't anymore which isn't there fault. They still did it in their day

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Let's take "pole dancing" as an example. My daughter Natasha Wang is

- 2013 California pole dancing champion.
- 2014 US pole dancing champion.
- 2015 international pole dancing champion.

She is teaching workshop all over the world today. One day if she will no longer be able to do what she is doing today, she will stop teaching and retire. IMO, you just can't teach students if you can't do yourself.

If you really believe that, you've never watched an older person teaching gymnastics. There are plenty of people who can teach a back flip, for instance, who can no longer actually do one. And some of them are really good at teaching them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If I can't lift a 200 lb guy over my shoulder, I will not teach "fireman's carry" throw. But I can still teach "single leg".

If it's a good technique, why steal it from your students just because you can't do it?

 

[JR 137]

If I can't lift a 200 lb guy over my shoulder, I will not teach "fireman's carry" throw. But I can still teach "single leg".

If you are too old and no longer be able to do a floor split, how can you ask your student to train that in your class? As a teacher, you should not ask your students to do something that you can't do yourself.

Not quite. Cus D'Amato, Teddy Atlas, and Kevin Rooney couldn't do what they asked Mike Tyson to do.

Angelo Dundee couldn't do what he asked Muhammad Ali to do.

In fact, I can only think of one hall of fame athlete who was/is also a hall of fame coach - Dan Gable, wrestler at Iowa State and coach of University of Iowa.

Due to hip conditions, my CI can't kick above his waist. That doesn't mean he can't teach me to.

The best exampl I can give is a diving coach I used to work with. He was a quadriplegic. He could easily pick apart his athletes' flaws and correct them. He was an excellent coach, and was formerly a higher level diving judge.

My former sensei was a terrific MAist physically. Easily the best I've ever been around. His technique and mechanics were pretty much flawless. He could demonstrate anything. But what did that do for me? Entertain me? He was quite good at teaching too, but being his physical self didn't make him any better as a teacher. Truth be told, my current CI who can't kick above his own waist is a better teacher. He's pointed out and corrected far more important flaws than my previous teacher did - both physical and strategic.

If I want to sit back and watch someone perform, I'll pick the best practitioner for a teacher. If I actually want to learn and improve, what the teacher can physically do means absolutely nothing. Well, almost nothing.

There's a reason why very few of the best players of all time in their respective sports didn't have coaching careers to speak of, and why the mediocre players have been some of the greatest coaches ever. And none of that has to do with them being great athletes.

 

[Steve]

If he can no longer think like an artist nor actually physically produce the art, then no, he isn't an artist any more.

Let's say Pablo Picasso was in an accident and became quadriplegic as a result. His mental capacity for art is completely unaffected. He can't paint, yet he has a student/protege/etc. pick up a brush and paint exactly what he he is envisioning for him. He's still an artist. His mind is still creating the art, no different than if Shakespeare dictated a story to someone who transcribed it for him, line by line.

If Picasso's injury left him unable to paint AND mentally create art, then no, he'd no longer be an artist. Just like if Shakespeare could no longer physically write nor think up and dictate a story, play, poem, etc.

I disagree. Maybe I'm just a romantic

 

[JR 137]

I disagree. Maybe I'm just a romantic

Shakespeare wrote plenty of literature about romantics like you

 

[Buka]

In a boxing gym in my twenties, couple years in, never really skipped rope, didn't care much for it, wasn't much good at it, didn't have time for it, doing too much training in karate and boxing.
An old guy, in his seventies, used to hit the speed bag, never saw him do anything else, never really spoke with him other than a "hi" while walking to the locker room.

One day he says, "Boy! You, Karate boy!" I said, "Yes, sir?"
He says, "How come you never do any rope work? Never warm up with it? Do you know how?"
I'm thinking, oh boy, here we go, he couldn't just leave me alone. But I wanted to be polite, so I listened, hoping he would be brief. He wasn't.
He started to teach me how to skip rope. He said he didn't do it any more, he had trouble with his feet.

After a few months I could skip rope like a MF'er. But, more important, he taught me where to go from there, to improve and broaden my skills to higher levels. He taught me "the rhythm of the rope", forwards, backwards, sideways, it was all the same rhythm of the rope. After a year (and he was no longer there) I could skip rope as well as anyone I've ever seen. And it was the best warm up I had ever used. Used it for damn near forty years. But more important, he taught me how to teach others the rhythm of the rope. I can teach the most uncoordinated, out of shape, clumsies how to skip rope, and I have, repeatedly ever since. It's might be my best teaching skill.

And I never once saw him skip more than two or three slow steps at a time. Honest to God.

 

[Buka]

In a boxing gym in my twenties, couple years in, never really skipped rope, didn't care much for it, wasn't much good at it, didn't have time for it, doing too much training in karate and boxing.
An old guy, in his seventies, used to hit the speed bag, never saw him do anything else, never really spoke with him other than a "hi" while walking to the locker room.

One day he says, "Boy! You, Karate boy!" I said, "Yes, sir?"
He says, "How come you never do any rope work? Never warm up with it? Do you know how?"
I'm thinking, oh boy, here we go, he couldn't just leave me alone. But I wanted to be polite, so I listened, hoping he would be brief. He wasn't.
He started to teach me how to skip rope. He said he didn't do it any more, he had trouble with his feet.

After a few months I could skip rope like a MF'er. But, more important, he taught me where to go from there, to improve and broaden my skills to higher levels. He taught me "the rhythm of the rope", forwards, backwards, sideways, it was all the same rhythm of the rope. After a year (and he was no longer there) I could skip rope as well as anyone I've ever seen. And it was the best warm up I had ever used. Used it for damn near forty years. But more important, he taught me how to teach others the rhythm of the rope. I can teach the most uncoordinated, out of shape, clumsies how to skip rope, and I have, repeatedly ever since. It might be my best teaching skill.

And I never once saw him skip more than two or three slow steps at a time. Honest to God.

 

[Tez3]

I was looking for a local boxing event under Boxing Ontario, and came across "How to Become a Boxer". Italics are mine.

The local association calls a person simply training an "athlete" until he/she starts training for competition. Only once the person is proficient AND looking to compete, is the person a "boxer". So although some people think my point of view is "stupid" , I still think it is quite reasonable to have proficiency as the key.

How to Become a Boxer | Boxing Ontario

""In order to become an amateur boxer, athletes first have to become members of one of our affiliated boxing clubs. See below on how to contact a club. The athlete trains for approximately 6 – 12 months at the club learning the fundamentals of boxing; stance, defense, ring craft, offense, combinations, rules, and shadow boxing (non-contact boxing). When the athlete, and/or coach and parent decide the athlete is ready to spar, the coach then must register the athlete as a competitor with Boxing Ontario (to register see below). Once this is completed the coach can arrange sparring sessions for the boxer, which are contact boxing trainings that are not scored. The purpose is to hone the boxer’s skills and knowledge before stepping into the ring for an actual bout."

That's as much for legal reasons as any other, boxers have to be licensed by a body that comes under the AIBA if they want to compete properly, they also lay down the terms under which a boxer can compete so that training is mandated by them. Of course they can fight unlicensed but that isn't the best way to go.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If you are too old and no longer be able to do a floor split, how can you ask your student to train that in your class? As a teacher, you should not ask your students to do something that you can't do yourself.

I would hope all instructors would strive to ignore the above. Each in turn should try to have their students exceed what they could have ever done at their best. If you cann do a flying double break but not a triple why would you not try to teach those who could do the double a triple? There are physical reasons why you may never have been able to do the splits. That does not mean you should not try to have students with the potential achieve them.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

That's as much for legal reasons as any other, boxers have to be licensed by a body that comes under the AIBA if they want to compete properly, they also lay down the terms under which a boxer can compete so that training is mandated by them. Of course they can fight unlicensed but that isn't the best way to go.

True, there is no "fun" tournament in boxing with no head contact like there is in TKD. My main point though in that post was that the association refers to a person training in boxing as an "athlete" and NOT a "boxer", until the point that they are good enough to enter competition. Then they are a "boxer".

 

[TrueJim]

If Burgess Meredith can teach Sylvester Stallone to beat Carl Weathers...

 

[Earl Weiss]

For my personal opinion. If I ever got to the point where I never again stepped on the floor to kick, punch or roll around on the ground and some one asked me if I were a Martial Artist, my response would be. "I was"

 

[drop bear]

Shakespeare wrote plenty of literature about romantics like you

Wow. Was that a super obscue shot because shakespear wrote tragedys?

Cos if so. I am impressed.

 

[JR 137]

Wow. Was that a super obscue shot because shakespear wrote tragedys?

Cos if so. I am impressed.

No. I wish I could take credit for thinking like that though.

 

[hwoarang-hapkido]

When they speak about "the correct spirit" i understand it as "wanting to be better everyday" "always try to improve" like "always learning"

 

[JP3]

No because they used to be able to do it and learnt how to do it but simply can't anymore which isn't there fault. They still did it in their day

And Here is to pushing that day when I "Can't" off for quite a while yet.