Pressure shooting

Tgace

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Stressfire


Shooting under stress is the litmus test for any training. You get to see what your instinctive reactions really are, and whether the smoothly choreographed moves you rehearse in practice work so well in real life. Shooters can become clumsy, hands will shake, vision closes, the mind can go blank. All these things are part and parcel of defensive pistolcraft, and a well-conditioned shooter will still function under these conditions.

Massad Ayoob recommends always shooting under some stress, even if it's just making a bet with someone or penalizing yourself in some way for not meeting your shooting goals. I personally think there is also a place for relaxed, no-penalty experimentation, but still, nothing can hone your skills as much as learning to exercise them under stress.

These are just some notes on what some people have done to create stress for shooters. Take what you like.

The best stressfire is man-on-man. Any way to involve a "hostile" antagonist immediately increases the stress level of an exercise (see the Tueller Drill). Paintball or simunition courses are the most realistic and demanding ways to test gun skills and tactics, because you have to deal with receiving fire as well handing it out. Even simple close-quarter tactical exercises with squirtguns will get your heart pounding.

Police instructors often follow cadets around a shooting course, shouting to confuse. Massad Ayoob at LFI will have a shooter hold a paper target at gunpoint while an instructor harangues her with verbal abuse. The shooter must distinguish death threats from all other abuse, and cannot fire until given a lethal threat. Any kind of verbal involvement in a shooting course is going to help make it stressful.

Paintball guns can be rigged with RC triggers (or with strings on the triggers) to fire at shooters in scenarios. This is an excellent way to force shooters to make good use of cover BUT please be sure that proper protection (full-coverage facemasks) is worn by both the shooter and the range officers. Keep them aimed low enough that guns will not be knocked from hands.

Surprise courses are better than courses the shooter sees in advance.

Shooting in any competition introduces a level of stress.

Running before shooting (as in the biathalon) is a common stress inducer used by the military.

Slosh water on your shooter just before a course of fire. Sniper trainers are known to drip water on the back of a shooter's neck while he or she takes a difficult shot. Squirtguns and super soakers are possibilities.

Put vaseline on a shooter's hands before a stage. (Try thumbing the slide release on a Glock after someone's done this to you!)

LFI has been known to use an electric stun gun on a shooter before firing a standard. I do not know if it was modified to deliver less of a charge than usual, and I would not recommend that you try this without finding out.

Combine any of the above with shoot/no-shoot targets, so that shooters need to take the time to evaluate their targets under stress. The most common live-fire method is to fasten cutouts of either weapons or innocuous objects to the "hands" of cardboard targets. The best threat assessment exercises are man-on-man confrontations using paintballs or simunitions.

From
http://www.kuci.uci.edu/~dany/firearms/all_drills.html
 

MJS

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loki09789 said:
The 'most of the people I know' types are a combination of military/leo and former, as well as civilians who use range shooting drills that create pressure because of magazine changes/time limits/holster starts and fatigue starts... (push ups or jumping jacks before they even hit the firing point.) Again, I DON"T CARE ABOUT THE REST OF THE SHOOTING WORLD, I know what I do and what others do to prepare for reality shooting. Some are serious civilians and some are not. Push come to shove, if I can get to either weapon equally, I would choose the firearm hands down. As far as training, if you feel that your knife training is good enough to answer all questions, go for it, but I would hate to see what happens when you bring that knife to a gun fight (to state a cliche).

And thats wonderful. As it was said before, everybody trains differently. IMO, the only way to prepare for stress, is to put yourself into that mindset. Having someone in front of you who wants to cause you serious harm or kill you, is far more stressful than doing 30 pushups and then shooting your gun. As for the knife/gun fight thing...again, the majority of people dont walk around with their gun strapped to their hip every time they go out. Sure, there are your exceptions, but I suppose it all comes down to who is quicker.

This was not intended to be a comparison between how 'seriously/realistically' shooters train compared to knife fighters. I am sure there are just as many 'enthusiasts' in each area relative to the number of 'real deal' trainers. I don't care what they do, and I am not trying to compare the shooting community to the knife/Martial arts community. If anything, I consider my firearms training as part of my MA training, not separate. I can use things/tactics/drills from each or combine them to create a complete spectrum of training.

Yup, you're right. I believe the main thrust of this thread was shooting under pressure. And yes, as it was said before, it did take a turn down a different road.

Mike
 
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loki09789

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"Having someone in front of you who wants to cause you serious harm or kill you, is far more stressful than doing 30 pushups and then shooting your gun"

Unless you are purposely walking into dark alleys or picking fights, you aren't in front of someone who wants to cause you serious harm during a training class or sparring. You are standing opposite someone simulating the actions and intentions. Of course sparring or head to head stress is more practical, but for firearms safety/access, TGACE has already mentioned paintball/simunition and even air softs with eye protection are options. The push ups - as well as some of the stress inducers that TGACE mentioned - are similar to heavy bag work or speed/double end bag work for empty hand or stick/knife training.

Next time you are planning on sparring or even just doing bag work, do a set of 30 push ups or so, or some other fatigue inducing exercise to simulate the 'fight or flight' physiological reaction you will experience in a real fight. This is very different from 'fighting on' as fatigue sets in because in the real deal, the physiological affect will be much faster and sometimes right away. Check out any description of the affect on fine motor skills, visual accuity, coordination.... It really wakes you up to the challenges your own body creates internally. Then, like you said already, it can be an eye opener to what techniques you really can pull off under physiological stress.
 

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loki09789 said:
"Having someone in front of you who wants to cause you serious harm or kill you, is far more stressful than doing 30 pushups and then shooting your gun"

Unless you are purposely walking into dark alleys or picking fights, you aren't in front of someone who wants to cause you serious harm during a training class or sparring. You are standing opposite someone simulating the actions and intentions. Of course sparring or head to head stress is more practical, but for firearms safety/access, TGACE has already mentioned paintball/simunition and even air softs with eye protection are options. The push ups - as well as some of the stress inducers that TGACE mentioned - are similar to heavy bag work or speed/double end bag work for empty hand or stick/knife training.

Stressfull situations can be brought into the students training. Matt Thorton adds alivness and resistance to his students training. Here is a better example of what I was trying to say. Having a student stand IFO you throwing a punch, that is 2in. away from your face is not going to give that realistic feeling. Now, have that same student put on a glove and really try to hit you in the face is gonna give a different feeling. Its gonna force the student to move, defend or whatever..if not, they're gonna get hit. Now, as for the pushups. Thats fine, but do them and then stand IFO that student whos trying to really hit you in the face, and I'm sure you'll get a much better feeling.

Next time you are planning on sparring or even just doing bag work, do a set of 30 push ups or so, or some other fatigue inducing exercise to simulate the 'fight or flight' physiological reaction you will experience in a real fight. This is very different from 'fighting on' as fatigue sets in because in the real deal, the physiological affect will be much faster and sometimes right away. Check out any description of the affect on fine motor skills, visual accuity, coordination.... It really wakes you up to the challenges your own body creates internally. Then, like you said already, it can be an eye opener to what techniques you really can pull off under physiological stress.

Been there, done that. After 17yrs of Kenpo tests, 5 yrs of Arnis tests, and having someone swing a stick at you or throw a punch at you when I already feel like I'm gonna drop, and have to defend myself....well, that was an eye opener to me. After going through every kata and every SD tech, and then have to put on gear and spar, and have to worry about defending myself..well, it sucked!!

Mike
 

Tgace

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what are you guys disagreeing about????
 
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loki09789

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"Here is a better example of what I was trying to say. Having a student stand IFO you throwing a punch, that is 2in. away from your face is not going to give that realistic feeling. Now, have that same student put on a glove and really try to hit you in the face is gonna give a different feeling."

I agree that contact in a non ballistic weapon/h2h format is the only way to go. But, the importance of drills/exercises/training that creates stress that allows you to focus on your performance - like forms, speed training, bag work.... are important to overall development. I would put some of the stress drills that shooter's use on ranges akin to those types of 'overspeed' training drills.

Adjust to the student's ability to deal with the speed/contact intensity and the target of course, but it definitely trains more realistic and appropriate responses. It still isn't someone who is seriously trying to take your head off, but it is as good as it gets while maintaining safety.

The basis for the belt testing formats that most Martial arts programs use, that are worth anything anyway, are based on the idea of performance under stress. Since the link between civilian/military/leo skills is the martial, the testing environments should have some commonallities. Like you have described in some of your history, tests that force you to start at a less than optimum mental and physical state are going to make it clear what you can make work under pressure.

You mentioned having a Glock w/holster. How would you incorporate it into your Kenpo/Arnis training so that you could transition through an entire spectrum of applications?
 
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loki09789

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Tgace said:
what are you guys disagreeing about????

I really don't know. I am looking for stress training input on firearms training, and now possible stress drills that might cross over martial arts to firearms.

MJS,
I am seeing a larger respect for martial training, or a lower level of respect for firearms training in your posts. I think that might be what I am responding to. If it is me misinterpreting, please explain further/clearer so I know where you are coming from. I don't want to seem snippy.

If I am right, then my intention is to keep the thread on track.
 

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loki09789 You mentioned having a Glock w/holster. How would you incorporate it into your Kenpo/Arnis training so that you could transition through an entire spectrum of applications?[/QUOTE said:
I think that it was TGACE that was talking about the Glock in the a holster. Not quite sure what you're talking about here??

Mike
 

MJS

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loki09789 said:
I really don't know. I am looking for stress training input on firearms training, and now possible stress drills that might cross over martial arts to firearms.

MJS,
I am seeing a larger respect for martial training, or a lower level of respect for firearms training in your posts. I think that might be what I am responding to. If it is me misinterpreting, please explain further/clearer so I know where you are coming from. I don't want to seem snippy.

If I am right, then my intention is to keep the thread on track.

IMO, I feel that it is important to haev an equal balance in all ranges of fighting....punching, kicking, clinching, and grappling. I also feel that it is important for students to have an understanding of weapons. My understanding of weapons, mostly the knife and stick comes from the Arnis. I think that if you're going to train with weapons, then its also important to learn about weapon retention, which is very important especially when it comes to LEO.

During the course of my training, I've had the chance to see alot of things, that IMO, if tried, would probably do you more harm than good. Fortunately, many of the people that I train with, include that aliveness or realism in their training, so it has opened my eyes so to speak.

Regardless of what you're training with, be it empty hand or weapon, I feel that adding that realism and training things that are going to work, are going to do nothing but make you better at what you're doing.

Mike
 
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loki09789

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MJS said:
IMO, I feel that it is important to haev an equal balance in all ranges of fighting....punching, kicking, clinching, and grappling. I also feel that it is important for students to have an understanding of weapons. My understanding of weapons, mostly the knife and stick comes from the Arnis. I think that if you're going to train with weapons, then its also important to learn about weapon retention, which is very important especially when it comes to LEO.

During the course of my training, I've had the chance to see alot of things, that IMO, if tried, would probably do you more harm than good. Fortunately, many of the people that I train with, include that aliveness or realism in their training, so it has opened my eyes so to speak.

Regardless of what you're training with, be it empty hand or weapon, I feel that adding that realism and training things that are going to work, are going to do nothing but make you better at what you're doing.

Mike

I agree with the idea of 'aliveness' or realism in training - regardless of weapon as well. Here you mention balance, and from the sounds of your background, your opinions on the topic of gun vs. knife is based on an unbalanced level of knowledge/experience on both sides. Some of your assumptions about weapons training/use/application are really not what the responsible SD shooting community teach or practice. And that is not the point of this thread. I have spent time becoming relatively familiar with shooting as well as non shooting martial arts and find that there is a seriously 'self validating' stance from both sides.

THe gun guys, who don't have a deep knowledge/respect for the non ballistic arts, tend to think that all 'Bruce Lee's' have a false sense of reality in relation to their training and that everyone wants to answer a gun fight with a fist - and thinks they can win.

The non Ballistic artists tend to think that shooters don't carry well, often or can pull it off well because they spend all their time on the range shooting at stationary targets for points....

After seeing both sides, there are just as many 'wannabes' on both sides who only argue for the virtues of their own art based on inaccurate assumptions on the other side, and from a motivation of self validation.

MJS, I am NOT counting you among these types, but I do think that checking out some of the links that TGACE has on his website would help you understand where I am coming from about my stance that the gun is superior... and I am always talking from the position of the self defense person, not the BG, too much liability problems.
 
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loki09789

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MJS said:
loki09789 You mentioned having a Glock w/holster. How would you incorporate it into your Kenpo/Arnis training so that you could transition through an entire spectrum of applications?[/QUOTE said:
I think that it was TGACE that was talking about the Glock in the a holster. Not quite sure what you're talking about here??

Mike

Yup, I was looking at a clipped quote and misread/credited it to you.
 

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