Postgame Dancers Pepper Sprayed By Police

[MJS]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/...Utah-pepper-sprayed-by-?urn=highschool-wp7506

Controversy has erupted in Utah after police reacted aggressively to a traditional Maori dance being performed by men and high school students after a small town football game on Thursday night.

According to the Associated Press, Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune, among other sources, a group of relatives of a player for the Roosevelt (Utah) Union High football team was attacked with pepper spray by police officers in Roosevelt, Utah while performing the dance shortly after Uintah's 17-14 victory. The group performing the Haka reportedly blocked the exit from the field, and while their dance was destined to be a quick one -- as practically all Hakas performed by sports teams are -- police insisted that they move from the area to allow players and others to leave the field.
When they began dancing instead, Roosevelt police began using pepper spray to displace the crowd.
"I've never seen anything like it," Union fan Jason Kelly told the Deseret News. "It was totally unprovoked."

Thoughts?

Upon first glance, I dont see much dancing. Looks like a bunch of people standing around. I'm wondering, if the entrance was blocked, and it was that much of a hazard, why wasn't the crowd moved along prior to the games end? Perhaps instead of blocking the entrance/exit, the 'dancers' should have either found or been moved to an area that still would have allowed them to do whatever it was they were doing, while at the same time, not blocking people from leaving.

 

[jks9199]

Not sure. It looks like they blocked the team from leaving. Reading it, it appears to be "their" team that was blocked -- but I don't know if the officers knew that. It doesn't appear that they were wearing school jackets or anything like that... The dance does appear to include aggressive posturing, which combined with a refusal to move could have been misinterpreted -- especially if the rivalry is at all heated.

It'll need to be investigated, and appropriate action taken at the completion of the investigation. That action might be an explanation to the public -- or discipline against officers.

 

[Tez3]

It's not a Maori haka, it's Tongan.

To say a haka appears to include aggressive posturing is something like saying the Pope could be Catholic lol! It is a 'dance' done by Polynesian Warriors not just the Maoris, to challenge someone to fight so it has very aggressive gestures, it fact the whole thing is very aggressive. It hypes up the warriors and intimidates their enemy.

 

[jks9199]

Here's a clip showing one (or maybe two) haka dances. I don't know if the response is also a haka, kind of like two Thai boxers will each perform their own ram muay before a fight.

Yeah -- I'm trying to get a team through a gate, and you stand in front of me doing that, I'm likely to assume that you mean business. And that may indeed mean using force to make a hole.

Could either or both side (crowd or cop) have defused this? Yeah. But the crowd created the situation...

 

[ballen0351]

Might have had something to do with the coach that got his face smashed in a week or two ago by the other team. I know we had something passed to us in roll call about football games.

http://www.ajc.com/news/high-school-coach-badly-1203243.html

 

[Tez3]

Hakas are a Polynesian thing, it's nothing like the Muay Thai thing. Only another Polynesian team would do a haka, on Sunday in the World Cup Final the French team made an arrowshape then walked forward to meet the challenge by the All Blacks.
Here you can learn about it from the New Zealanders themselves.

http://www.newzealand.com/int/article/haka/

http://www.rugbysongs.net/Haka.htm

 

[shesulsa]

I'm ... kinda ... surprised that the police did not know what was going on here. I was told stopping the Haka is like halting the national anthem ... just not done. It is the creed of the people, man. I understand how a USA police officer might not get it, but ... locals? Really? At ... a *rugby* event????? Smacks of ... something else to me.

 

[jks9199]

I'm ... kinda ... surprised that the police did not know what was going on here. I was told stopping the Haka is like halting the national anthem ... just not done. It is the creed of the people, man. I understand how a USA police officer might not get it, but ... locals? Really? At ... a *rugby* event????? Smacks of ... something else to me.

It wasn't a rugby game; it was a high school football game. And in a fair chunk of the US -- especially in the Midwest -- high school football is a really, really big deal. Even in my area, we've had some pretty nasty fights break out after games between rivals (and sometimes not-rivals). Like I said, I can see the cops, given the circumstances, and not knowing that it was meant as support, reading it as essentially a hostile picket line. From the video, the crowd milled around and only started their display as the football team approached. I'm not saying the cops were automatically right -- but I'm also not saying their wrong. OC is a reasonable response to the situation, depending on how the cops perceived it.

 

[Tez3]

Watching the Rugby world Cup over the past few weeks I've noticed that no New Zealander has referred to the Haka as a 'dance', I think calling that means that what it is isn't appreciated by the people there so leading to an obviously big misunderstanding. The All Blacks aftr winning the World cup also did a Haka at the end, the New Zealand commentator, ex All Black world Cup winner himself said it was done after a battle as a 'welcome back and well done' so would have been done as the players approached. I think you have a case of cultural misunderstandings here.

 

[mook jong man]

If they pepper sprayed people just doing the haka , they probably would have called in the national guard on these blokes.

[video=youtube_share;Nk2Cwl_flZc]http://youtu.be/Nk2Cwl_flZc[/video]

 

[ballen0351]

Watching the Rugby world Cup over the past few weeks I've noticed that no New Zealander has referred to the Haka as a 'dance', I think calling that means that what it is isn't appreciated by the people there so leading to an obviously big misunderstanding. The All Blacks aftr winning the World cup also did a Haka at the end, the New Zealand commentator, ex All Black world Cup winner himself said it was done after a battle as a 'welcome back and well done' so would have been done as the players approached. I think you have a case of cultural misunderstandings here.

The officers reaction had nothing to do with the dance it was blocking the exit from the stadium. Had they not been blocking the exit it would have not been an issue. When the officer told them to make a hole they ignored him. Had they listened or had they not been blocking the exit they would have been fine.

 

[Tez3]

The officers reaction had nothing to do with the dance it was blocking the exit from the stadium. Had they not been blocking the exit it would have not been an issue. When the officer told them to make a hole they ignored him. Had they listened or had they not been blocking the exit they would have been fine.

I think you've missed my point. I wasn't saying anything about the police or their actions, I was talking about people, like yourself, who seem to think the Haka is a 'dance' and therefore belittle what they are doing. I'm saying there is cultural differences that have lead to misunderstandings.

As you've brought it up though, a little patience goes a long way, one officer isn't going to be heard above the noise of a Haka so very unlikely they could have heard him/her. We have Fijians here, they do a Haka, I'm often on duty when they play rugby, we don't have difficulties bascoally because the exits are kept clear at all times so crowds etc are directed corectly. If the scenerio is as you suggest then the stewards were doing a poor job in the first place if the police have to become involved.

Mook Jong Man, the Wallabies done good!

 

[Tez3]

I wouldn't take the Polynesians lightly
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/878801-german-tourist-eaten-by-cannibals-on-pacific-island

 

[jks9199]

If they pepper sprayed people just doing the haka , they probably would have called in the national guard on these blokes.

[video=youtube_share;Nk2Cwl_flZc]http://youtu.be/Nk2Cwl_flZc[/video]

Time & place.

Middle of the field, by the players... intent and purpose is clear.

Done while apparently blocking a team from exiting? While ignoring police direction to give way? Now we hit a potential problem.

Like I said; either side could have acted to defuse the situation in a number ways, but I do put the primary burden on the people doing something they weren't supposed to in a place they weren't supposed to be.

 

[Tez3]

Could just be a balls up due to lack of communication. As I said the stewards should have the exits covered so that they couldn't be blocked (there were stewards? very bad if there wasn't) they could have guided the Haka away before it started, they should have be briefed it was likely there would be one. If properly stewarded there would have been no need for police action. If there was just the one police officer trying to direct a large amount of people away it's likely he /she wouldn't have been heard or perhaps even seen.
Proper stewarding means no non players on the pitch, means all exits are open, they should control the crowd well before and after the match. Down to whoever organised the match to make sure security arrangements are correct.

 

[mook jong man]

I wouldn't take the Polynesians lightly
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/878801-german-tourist-eaten-by-cannibals-on-pacific-island

I've never seen a light Polynesian , they all look pretty heavy to me. :ultracool

 

[Tez3]

I've never seen a light Polynesian , they all look pretty heavy to me. :ultracool

Tell me about it! The reason the army here recruits so many is for the rugby team, the Scots Guards have a few, quite funny in kilts! That and they are ferocious fighters!

 

[jks9199]

A few things about high school football...

Even though it's a big deal in a lot of communities, the "stewards" are generally teachers and parents. Maybe a few school security staff. There'll typically be a couple of cops around to deal with problems and keep a lid on things. They're a minor security force. If it's a slow night, you might get a couple of other area units sneaking in for a few minutes now and then.

Should the cops in the area have had some familiarity with customs like the haka? Yeah, ideally. But realistically -- maybe, maybe not. Let alone recogniaieat the time of the offense. Should the school representatives have worked harder to keep the exit clear? Yeah, probably. Could someone in the group have simply made a hole to let the players out? Yeah.

 

[Tez3]

Speaking from experience I think discretion would have been the better part of valour here, it would have taken little for people to wait a couple of minutes until the Haka was finished though it was have been far better to have cleared the exit as soon as anyone started congregating there, there was a crowd there for a while before the police officer started to take any action. This makes it look as if it was the Haka he was objecting to, otherwise he should have moved them on much earlier. The use of pepper spray seems to indicate that the officer felt threatened by the Haka. That's what it looks like. The use of the spray could have caused a panic. Crowds and panic aren't good, think the Hillborough disaster or Heysel stadium. It doesn't have to be a big crowd to seriously injure or kill someone.
Stewarding is important whenever there is a sizable crowd, it doesn't matter whether it's a professional sports event or a kids game, where there's a crowd there's all sorts of dangers.

 

[David43515]

I`m suprised it happened in Utah. somewhere around 80% of Polynesians are LDS (Mormon) and almost every Tongan, Maori, or Samoan I`ve ever met was from Utah. I would`ve assumed the cop knew what it was....but it sounds more than likely that Tez hit the nail on the head. Someone didn`t know what it was, and it was being done in an area that should have been more controlled.