Please advise re: my kid defending himself

[punisher73]

I think your son did a fine job of defending himself and protecting the other kid from further injury.

You need to stand up for your kid's rights and the rights of the other kids to be able to attend there and be safe. Yes, accidents happen in a sporting event, but they shouldn't have to worry about being injured from another kid who has violent outbursts.

You had mentioned that it has happened before, I would talk with those parents and get statements from them and get them to commit to talking with the board as well to show that this is an ongoing problem with this other kid.

That leads me to wonder, your son was threatened to be removed from the team if it happened again....why hasn't Jerry been removed already since it keeps happening? This is the part that gets me, the way the laws are, if Jerry is labeled as learning or emotionally disabled and they get someone to show that his behavior was a "manifestation" of it, then he pretty much gets a free pass. I see it all the time here, a kid will assault a teacher and instead of expulsion he/she is allowed to remain in the school because it was just a "manifestation" and they couldn't help it.

As far as Jerry's mother, shame on her and her husband. It is tragic to have a child with mental/emotional problems but instead of covering them up, bring them up and educate people what it means and how to help Jerry out so that everyone can have fun and understand his behavior. All Jerry's parents are doing is setting the stage for their son to be ostracized as he gets older.

 

[girlbug2]

So your son is supposed to be a punch dummy because Jerry's mom can't control his meds?

No of course not.

I have thought about this some more after reading all the responses and talking with my husband; I do believe my son did the right thing and hopefully the other parents can be made to see that. The fact is that the only three eyewitnesses to the event -- myself, the assistant coach, and one other dad who was playing on the field at the time -- all agree on what happened, should be all that is required, but if they want to send reps to observe, they're going to see all they need to see about Jerry's usual disruptive and combative behavior with the other kids on the team, and hopefully that will be the end of it.

I can understand that Jerry's mom is emotional about her kid getting a big bruise on his stomach, but really, she has herself to blame for the situation in the long run. Scapegoating my son or anybody else that Jerry tangles with isn't going to solve their problems. I wish that family all the best, but IMO they should never have signed Jerry up for the regular AYSO, there is a "VIP" AYSO apparently that he could have played on, given his condition.

My son has been told that he reacted correctly, he will not be in trouble, and that's all.

Now I'm just praying that when the reps show up to watch, everybody will be on their usual behavior. That will tell them everything they need to know to make the right decision.

Peace to you all.

 

[morph4me]

I bet if Jerry's mother knows the reps will be there she won't forget his medication that day.

 

[Drac]

I can understand that Jerry's mom is emotional about her kid getting a big bruise on his stomach, but really, she has herself to blame for the situation in the long run. .

She would REALLY be emotional if her kid would have injuried someone and she would up in court...

 

[arnisador]

If it were my son I'd remind him that the cleats can cause damage/scars and that he needs to be cognizant of that fact, but overall I'd praise him. I wouldn't want to paint a child with medical concerns affecting his mental health as a "bad guy" but I'd emphasize my son's right to defend himself. Then I'd sit on the coach for not providing a safe environment.

I wouldn't want to see the other kid excluded from sports unless it's necessary...and in this case it sounds like it's probably necessary.

 

[Tez3]

girlbug, your posts have brought back horrible memories of being at school and having people ganging up against me because of someone's say so. I know exactly how you feel and that sort of horrible helplessness you feel when people won't believe or listen to you but rather the person who's making the most noise.Sometimes it's lousy to be morally right and have people against you.
I think the other mothers will know that you are right and hopefully will have the commonsense and guts to say so. One things is for sure, if your son is removed from the team the problem doesn't go away, they still have to cope with a child who attacks the other children and is difficult to cope with!
I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you and your son, he sounds a canny lad!

 

[Drac]

One things is for sure, if your son is removed from the team the problem doesn't go away, they still have to cope with a child who attacks the other children and is difficult to cope with!

Well said Tez3..There is an ongoing controversy over here concerning a special needs child on "meds" that has acted up in church..Other members are fearful that they will be hurt...Seems he has acted up violently during Mass...

 

[thardey]

First - kudos to your son for being able to stand his ground, and then stop when the threat is over - for a six-year old, that's pretty impressive. (Actually, it's pretty impressive for anybody!)


Second, don't get caught up in the rumor mill - the more you react to it, the more fuel you add to the fire. However, something does need to me done. I would go directly to the administration myself, hopefully before the reps come to visit. You don't have to broadcast that fact, either, just do it.

There's two proverbs that are coming to mind: one goes "Without fuel, a fire dies out, without gossip, a quarrel dies down." And another is "When a man comes forward with a complaint, his case seems right, until another comes forward to question him."

That is, don't just let the coach be the only one to talk to the higher-ups. Even if he is the most honorable, upright guy, he's still only able to say what he saw, and he is going to protect himself and his team first and foremost. You saw what happened, and you're there to protect your son. You don't have to be forceful, and charismatic, just calm and determined.

There's another saying, "**** rolls downhill." That is, the other parents will accept the decision of those in authority, because they're in authority. That will serve as the best defense of your son's character, and yours. Let them take the heat for the decision, that's their job.

 

[7starmarc]

I agree with most of what has been posted. Kudos to your son overall. A warning about how much cleats can hurt.

I would avoid any direct conversation/confrontation with the parents. Parents hate being told that their child is causing problems. Avoid speaking too much with other parents as well, except those who were direct witnesses of the event.

I agree with speaking to the ruling body yourself. Consider filing a counter-complaint regarding the disruptive, potentially violent, behavior of the boy (it may be too late for this).

What really gets me is the attitude that so many parents take nowadays about supervising their own children. They come to parks, parties, and other people's houses and let them run wild, preferring to socialize over monitoring behaviors. Particularly if that child has a known behavior issue. It is inexcusable, IMO, that she did not see the incident, it means that she wasn't watching her unmedicated, special needs child. The coach is there to run a structured practice and teach skills, not babysit a disruptive child. The coach should not be putting the child in "time out" at this age (aside from instructing the child to leave practice and go to their parent), the parent should be stepping in. Later, coach discipline is fine (push ups, situps, laps, whatever) because older children can be counted on to do the penance and understand the message. Some six year olds would respond to this, many won't.

 

[Empty Hands]

The coach tells me that he understands it was self defense but my kid has to be kicked off of the team if it ever happens again.

Zero tolerance for the loss!

When Jerry's mom got home from practice today she apparently called the other parents and persuaded some of them to rally with her to get my son off of the team.

I really hate people sometimes. Way to take out your emotional issues on 6 year olds!

 

[Nolerama]

Does your son even like soccer? Sounds to me like he would do well in an MA class.

BTW, Jerry's mom made it clear that she created a liability when she stated, aloud, that she forgot his meds that day. Therefore, she's knowledgeable of the situation, allowed a liability to affect other kids, and even went as far as allowing Jerry to attack your son (parents are responsible for their kids' actions) puts her in a bad place legally.

I hate to put it this way, but it's like saying you have a dog, and mention to your peers that this dog just got bit by a rabid squirrel. Your dog attacks someone, and YOU sue/petition/rally against the attacked? That won't fly in court. You're responsible.

Jerry's mom is responsible for the entire situation by not giving her kid his medication.

If your son gets kicked off the team, good riddance to a bad group of suburbanites; but I'm sure you can file a case with whatever governing body that your soccer kids are part of. Heck, you have definite grounds to get Jerry off the team. I'm sure there's someone out there that filmed the situation.

It's about the kids, their safety, and their growth as athletes. It's not a popularity contest between parents.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

First off--Kudos to your son for getting done what needed doing and only what needed doing.

Second, kudos to you for standing by him.

Third--if you have the financial means available, contact an attorney because you have a very winnable lawsuit should the administration and Jerry's mom choose not to See The Light And Come To Jesus/Buddha/The Flying Spaghetti Monster/pick your favorite.

Fourth--following on the point about cleats and damaging techniques--As soon as you can find a school that will take him at his age, get him enrolled in Judo.

I am not placing a "value judgment" on the validity of any martial art, but I find Judo very well suited to the kind of things kids will realistically encounter growing up:It's wrestling, and little apes love to wrestle. You learn to fall. Most people never get in a fight, but everyone falls down. It wears them out. It's great exercise and does wonders for balance and coordination. It develops fighting spirit in a good way without risking the same damage that a full contact strking art might at that point in life. . Striking is bad for young unfused bones and can lead to permanent joint problems in ways that grappling just doesn't( I wish I'd known this as a kid so maybe my shoulders wouldn't click nowadays every so often). It works just fine for schoolyard troubles with a lot less chance for accidental injury than kicking some kid in the head. Little Special Jerry is off his meds and decides to take on the world? take him down and slap a kesagatame on him until he calms down or the teachers can break it up--Jerry's not going anywhere but the hold does no actual *damage*.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Sounds to me like the coach is thinking of kicking the wrong kid off the team.

 

[BLACK LION]

I would take him out for ice cream... he is on the right path... forget about what others think and say... your childs safety is paramount...

hey l;ook on the bright side...if they kick him off the soccer team... more time to train in martial arts... its a win win

I agree with kenpotex in his first post....

 

[astrobiologist]

Sounds like everyone is pretty much on the same page here. Your son acted appropriately for his age and understanding of the world. As a young kid I dropped a few when called for. The rules and policies in the American education system are ridiculous. The ACLU has done a lot to protect our rights, but they've also done a lot to put our children in danger in the name of "fairness".

While talking with Master Iain Abernethy at a seminar, he mentioned how in the UK as long as a person had reasonable belief that they were going to be attacked, they will usually not have any trouble with the law. Here in the United States of America, we have to be afraid to defend ourselves in so many situations; ya, and they call that "fair"...

On another note, I really am worried about Jerry's parents. I've met a lot of children who are said to be ADD/ADHD or who have so-called special needs and are on a boatload of medication, but when I've met their parents it hits me like a bat to the head: it's the parents who are screwing the kid up! So many parents think that handing the kid his medication and then sitting him in front of the television or computer is actually good parenting. I'm not saying ADD/ADHD aren't real problems for some, but I definitely think that there are way too many misdiagnosed children on drugs who just need their parents to pay attention.

It may be that Jerry's parents are going to become a pain in the butt for you. This may just settle out (fingers crossed for those who are superstitious), but I would definitely watch for Jerry's parents. Blaming your son and getting him in trouble may be their way of reinforcing their son's bad habits and of relieving themselves from any feelings of guilt. I'm not saying you should lower yourself to any scheming or drama, but just remember that there are many people out there who don't understand honor, humility, or integrity...

 

[chinto]

Well said Tez3..There is an ongoing controversy over here concerning a special needs child on "meds" that has acted up in church..Other members are fearful that they will be hurt...Seems he has acted up violently during Mass...

once again I am sure there is some controversy.. but my answer would be to the pastor and all .." if he acts up violently and threatens me or mine I will stop him, and not worry about his "special needs". ..

now as to the kid on the team .. the same response. I would tell the coach, and other mothers that my kid is not a punching bag. and make it clear you will make a real fight and stink over it. I would also aproch the 'special needs' kids mother and tell her the same thing. enough is enough.

 

[Lynne]

Both boys could be kicked off of the team. I'd raise heck. I wouldn't let it go.

It could be that only your son may be kicked off. Sometimes, the good lose and it's a tough lesson. And I'd definitely raise heck.

This is a good opportunity to teach your son martial virtue. We must stand up for what is right with courage and honor. We defend ourselves with honor. It doesn't mean we will be understood, but personally we win because we did the right thing.

Thank goodness your son stopped the attack. I hate to think what an out-of-control kid could have done to your son.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Why the hell is this "Jerry" kid's behavior tolerated?

If he's truely a "Special Needs" child why is he involved in standard school programs?

I'm no doctor, but I'd put money on the fact that he probabaly needs more discipline at home more than he needs meds. Based on the point that his mother "forgot to give him his meds" it's apparent that she's not the most responsible parent on the planet so it's not a huge leap to assume that he's not recieving proper discipline at home.

I'm personally sick and tired of America depending on pharmaceuticals to solve thier problems and control behavior. It's utter BS and laziness.

 

[Lynne]

Why the hell is this "Jerry" kid's behavior tolerated?

If he's truely a "Special Needs" child why is he involved in standard school programs?

I'm no doctor, but I'd put money on the fact that he probabaly needs more discipline at home more than he needs meds. Based on the point that his mother "forgot to give him his meds" it's apparent that she's not the most responsible parent on the planet so it's not a huge leap to assume that he's not recieving proper discipline at home.

I'm personally sick and tired of America depending on pharmaceuticals to solve thier problems and control behavior. It's utter BS and laziness.

Yes, something stinks regards the mother forgetting to give her child his medication. How could she forget that? Ok, it could happen, rushing to practice and all. But you apologize to everyone and leave after the first unruly incident.

Maybe he really isn't a special needs child. Maybe he's a undisciplined pain-in-the-backside with loads of energy. Some kids are "kinetic" (not solely sure I buy that theory) learners and really don't do well in classrooms where they have to sit down. They get medicated instead of disciplined. I know one kid can disrupt an entire class but there has to be a better way. And it starts at home.

(I'm not denying there are children who need medication, that ADD or ADHD exist. I think it can be an excuse to let a child be undisciplined for those parents who are unwilling to parent.)

 

[shesulsa]

Wow.

First of all, let's all just stop pretending that meds are Magic Pills that Cure Bad Behavior. Because they're not. Mkay?

We don't know if "Jerry" wasn't on meds when he was registered and then placed on them later - certainly possible, I registered my child for football in MAY, three months before the season. My older boy's meds have changed about six times in that period.

Meds get played with - dosages, time given, with or without food, to see if the effectiveness of the purpose of the drug and perhaps minimization of side effects can be capitalized.

So ... faulting "Jerry's" mom for the meds thing is rather moot as we really can't know all the particulars and there really are more facets to the medication issue than the black and white 'give it or don't give it' dichotomy.

It sounds to me like Jerry's parents are (probably unbeknownst to them) using Jerry's disability to manipulate other parents into a sympathetic and most likely incorrect position. And THAT *is* wrong.

It's also wrong for the kicking boy to have to feel bad about what he did and why or to be punished for defending himself. He's six years old and what a strange place to be in life for a child. The need to protect oneself and maintain stature is there but the nuances behind self-defense will come with maturity, of which any six year old has little.

He acted instinctively and I would absolutely defend it to him and for him.

An alternative to finding out which boy has to leave the team is a behavioral plan for "Jerry." Someone uninvolved emotionally needs to be there to intervene and aide Jerry such that he learns appropriate behavior consistently with the understanding by his teammates that he is learning to behave appropriately through exposure. It's gotta be a team effort - and that, my friends, would be the perfect potential solution to the problem. Will it happen? Unlikely.

I would also look into training for your son, but if this particular issue is a sensitive one for you - and it really should be for everyone - you'll need an instructor who cares about contain and control without devastation but will teach the need for devastation and its appropriate timing in a manner that is not "Kill them all and let God sort them out." This is important for him as well as you and just makes good sense socially, especially as he develops.

I would honestly recommend judo or aikido as they involve turning an opponent instead of beating the crap out of them. You can learn that anywhere - and you/he probably should ... but as a core focus, it's tough to beat turning your opponent. It's a skill that is beneficial in virtually every sport.

Best wishes to you and your boy and ... you're doing a great job by asking a tough question.

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