Picadilly Car Bombs

[michaeledward]

Today, all the alerts were sounding a full volume. Two 'car bombs' were discovered in a busy section of London.

The bomb in question is apparently ..... gasoline. And, nails.


Since the time Richard Reid tried to set off a 'Shoe Bomb' on a transatlantic flight, every passenger on every domestic flight has had to remove his or her footwear when passing through the X-Ray / Metal Detector at the airport.

Since the time the British 'Chemists' plotted to chemically combine liquids
in an airplane lavatory on transatlantic flights to create an explosive in flight, air travelers have not been allowed to carry on more than 3 ounces of any single liquid or gel, and all must fit into a one quart, clear zip bag.

What will possibly be the result of a gasoline and nail bomb?

Perhaps we can get CAFE standards for automobiles to drive 45 miles per gallon of distillate of petroleum, and a restriction on the size of the fuel take to one gallon. 45 miles per tank!

Perhaps, general contractors will be restricted to how many boxes of nails they can buy at any one time, and their commercial vehicles will be required to have reinforced side walls, heavy duty locks, and GPS transmitting devices so that the Homeland Security Department can know, at all times, where every truck filled with nails is located.

Listening to the reports today ... some supposedly very important people are claiming this is 'clearly an indication of desire by al Qaeda'. Gasoline is not an explosive! It is incindiary, for petes' sake. It makes a pretty fireball, but it ain't that big a deal.

And if al Qaeda's best thinking is gasoline and nails ... we really can stop worrying about 'international terrorism'.


This better be a rich man's practical joke. This is not news. It is just a sad call for attention.


P.S. - I bet they don't start rationing gasoline.

 

[Tez3]

You sound as if you think we were making a fuss about nothing. In fact inside the vehicles were propane gas bottles, ever seen one of them explode in heat? The vehicles would have exploded at the time crowds were leaving the clubs and hundreds yep hundreds would have been hit by the nails. Not quite so amusing really.

We've had another attempt today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6257194.stm

Never a good place to try stuff like that though, Glaswegians are known for their ferocity.

 

[michaeledward]

How the Brits react, really isn't quite so much about what I was referencing, but, I do think the correct reaction is ridicule and laughter.

In this country, a vehicle with 50 gallons of petrol in it is called (as another web site put it), a Cadillac Escalade. You state that the vehicles "would have exploded". I would say, if the vehicles had exploded.

Really, the idea is laughable; turning a car into a moltov cocktail. Even with the Glasgow incident ~ which I saw several hours earlier on the CNN site, ~ an act of vandalism, yes - an act of stupidity, yes - an act of terrorism, oh ********.

If that is the best the British terrorists can come up with, stop fretting. Such incompetence deserves the treatment by Monty Python, rather than Scotland Yard.

 

[Tez3]

Well pal, I'm really glad you're amused because we sure as hell aren't.

I think you are misunderstanding the the word gas. The vehicles were not full of fuel which wouldn't have exploded at least only the fuel tank would have. The cars were full of propane gas tanks not 50 galls of petrol/diesel (gasoline to you) it was 50 gallons of propane gas.http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/safety/exgas.htm

Please note first sentence under Hazards... propane is one of the most dangerous gases. Very explosive.


Still think it is worthy of Monty Python?

 

[michaeledward]

Still think it is worthy of Monty Python?

Yes.

Pal.

It's no wonder your empire was lost.

 

[jks9199]

In this country, a vehicle with 50 gallons of petrol in it is called (as another web site put it), a Cadillac Escalade. You state that the vehicles "would have exploded". I would say, if the vehicles had exploded.

Really, the idea is laughable; turning a car into a moltov cocktail. Even with the Glasgow incident ~ which I saw several hours earlier on the CNN site, ~ an act of vandalism, yes - an act of stupidity, yes - an act of terrorism, oh ********.

If that is the best the British terrorists can come up with, stop fretting. Such incompetence deserves the treatment by Monty Python, rather than Scotland Yard.

What are your qualifications to assess a terrorist plot, especially with no better information than what's in the press? I've had a certain amount of training in counter-terrorism, and I'm reluctant to make more than a guess based on what's been presented.

The bottom line here is simple... Someone, whoever they may be, managed to orchestrate at least two, possibly three, nearly simultaneous attacks. What I've read and heard suggests that they attempted planned to extend the impact and force of the attack.

I don't know about you -- but that kind of worries me. See, we've got LOTS and lots of cars here in the US. And we pay little attention to where they go, unless they're in the way. Then we curse at the drivers. Materials to create improvised explosives are easily available. (More easily than you really want to know.) And that's before we get into things like chemical or biological weapons...

You're right... there's nothing at all worrying in these terror attempts in England. After all, there's an entire ocean between us and them...

 

[theletch1]

Tez, it's always a shocker to have something like this happen in your own back yard, isn't it? Timothy McVeigh didn't need a nuke to create the destruction that he created. The key to terrorism isn't always the number of the dead but the reaction of the living. It's never laughable to have someone attempting to kill or maim your friends and neighbors.

MichaelEdward, While you may believe that anything that doesn't meet a certain standard for destruction is not worth paying attention to others will certainly take it seriously. The officials of any government and especially the media will do their best to hype a situation like this for the added attention (yeah, this gets the extra attention that terrorists are looking for) to push their own agenda or raise ratings. Keep in mind that our neighbors across the big pond just had a new PM take office a couple days ago and this may simply be a hastily thrown together and thankflly failed attempt to let the British people know that getting rid of Tony Blair isn't going to change the fact that there are those out there bent on destruction.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Some years back, Buffalo had a propane explosion happen during a building fire. Several fire fighters were killed, and the building was leveled, with heavy damage to the surrounding ones.

The memorial is 2 blocks from my house.

I don't fault the Brits for their actions at all.

 

[Kacey]

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[Bob Hubbard]

BASTARDS.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6257194.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6257606.stm

They have just tried to blow up Glasgow Airport.
Luckily they ****** up and a disaster was avoided, but still, they have caused chaos to our travel network, and panic.
Cobra has raised the UK terror threat leval to 'critical', with First Minister of Scotland Alex Salmond and his team coordinating with the UK government in London.

Things are really getting grim over here. With 3 failed attempts, you just know that one of these are going to hit the mark big time, with many deaths.
BRG

http://www.rustaz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15222


This is scary news.

 

[Tez3]

I'm so pleased we are keeping one of our Americans cousins amused at least. I thank the other for his concern. Personally of course I find all bombings highly amusing, pieces of bodies flying everywhere, limbs lying in the street, people crying... oh what joy.

This was especially fun wasn't it?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4661059.stm

Monty Pythonish wasn't it?

Sit comfortably at your computer and mock by all means, try to start a Brit v USA flame war by all means. Have yourself a chuckle at the Brits running around scared. How comforting it must be to be so superior. I bow to your knowledge. I've only had over 30 years experience fighting terrorism, been blown up one ( Red Lion pub London in the 70's just after my round), I've seen the pieces left of the Para's after they were blown up in NI, hell, my fiance was blown up there too. I've seen the bodies of the children killed in the Manchester bombs, the bodies coming out of the Underground after the last London bombing.

I remember too the tears of the British when you lost your Twin Towers, I remember my own. I remember people raising money to send over, not because it was as much needed but as a gesture of solidarity. I remember our Queen speaking for us all when she sent her message of sympathy. Guess we may have lost an Empire but at least we grew up.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Personally, I find nothing funny about attempts to take lives.

3 failed attempts, timed when the keys of the government are transfered. Sounds like something bigger than just lone crackpot. I think congratulations are in order, that the damage this time was minimized. Lets hope that this is the worst of it.

 

[Tez3]

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I apologise now for my last post, I read this after I had posted. I shan't post again on this issue.

 

[exile]

I apologise now for my last post, I read this after I had posted. I shan't post again on this issue.

Tez, IMO, you for sure have nothing to apologize for. Given the abysmal content that you were responding to, the restraint reflected in your post qualifies you for something like sainthood.

 

[jdinca]

Even a 5 gallon propane tank exploding in a crowded area would have killed people. Make that 50 gallons, add gasoline, which puts off flammable vapors at very low temperatures, a big pile of nails and you have a recipe for disaster. After the explosion, the car would have been one big molatov cocktail, not to mention all of the flying shrapnel.

On the plus side, propane tanks are fitted with relief valves that are supposed to prevent that from happening. Put that tank in an enclosed car though, and all that vented gas and subsequent fire are confined within the vehicle, increasing the temperature of the vessel to the point that the pressure relief valve can no longer handle the quantity of gas being released and the result is going to be an explosion.

Here's just one of the videos I found on YouTube:

Anybody should be able to understand what a large bullet Britain dodged on this one.

I'm happy Tez that the terrorists were unable to carry out their plan. Just as happy that the two in Scotland weren't able to get their car inside the terminal.

 

[Blindside]

Anyone who doesn't know what a little bit of propane can do go to youtube and search for "propane." Thankfully these terrorists failed, but that doesn't make the act any less despicable, or any less worrisome. Quite frankly I'm surprised that anyone can scoff at such an action.

Lamont

Edit: Disabled rep, hmm, wonder why.

 

[Tez3]

Thank you everyone! I have only two things to say to MichealEdward now

1. there are two c's in Piccadilly.

2. wrong attribution of humour,not Monty Python more Basil Fawlty is what it would have been if it were as you said.

During the 'Troubles' the PIRA would phone through bomb warnings without there actually being a bomb in place, they knew the havoc and fear it would cause. When the order came to evacuate the nearby buildings many people were afraid for their lives while they were being led from the nearby clubs, luckily the procedure in place stopped any panic and ensured people were led to safety without there being any injuries. Again the PIRA were known to plant bombs in one place and again in a place they knew people would be evacutated to so there was always the chance the people were being led into danger not away from it.
Londoners are very stoic about the bombings, they've endured the Germans and the Irish before the latest wave of Muslim terrorism.

The two would be bombers in Glasgow are lucky though, The Glaswegians are a tough bunch and wouldn't have taken kindly to having their airport damaged! It's from Glasgow that we get the expression Glasgow Kiss for a particularly nasty head butt!

 

[exile]

Tez, not to worry.

I'm pretty sure that just about everyone on this board is morally informed enough to come to exactly the right conclusions about any attempt to joke—at the potential victims' expense—about turning an automobile into an incendiary bomb.

PS: Blindside, my man, have I told you recently how much I respect your shrewdness of observation? Well, if not... I'm doing so now!

 

[Mr. E]

I know there is an election in America next year.

I know the polls show that the majority of Americans still prefer the Republicans over the Democrats when it comes to dealing with the issue of terrorism.

I know that the Democratic candidates have tried to play down terrorism as an election issue in favor of areas where they are strong. One candidate even tried to liken the War on Terror to a bumper sticker slogan.

And I know there are people here that seem to bent on getting Republicans defeated in the next election.

But even so, likening attempts to kill scores, possibly hundreds of people to a comedy program is beyond the pale.

For those of you in America, please understand that there are people right now in London who are afraid to go shopping. Every few hours there seems to be another development, another attempt. First one car was found. Before the media even had time to ponder that another one was found. Now it looks like someone has tried to crash into a busy area and blow up scores of innocents just waiting for a plane. People are worried that there may still yet be other plotters that are poised to strike at crowded areas. It may be a few days, maybe weeks before some people are willing to go to crowded shopping areas.

This type of thing is just sick. Years from now we may blow off some steam by making jokes about it. But making fun of the terror people feel by likening it to Monty Python is just terrible. Please, can people just put aside their politics and have some sympathy for those who right now are wondering if there may be other attacks about to happen?

 

[michaeledward]

About this issue, I will say the following.


There is a complete lack of perspective, on this issue, on this board. While real car bombs are killing American Soldiers, British Soldiers, and innocent Iraqis every week in Iraq, this incident should receive little or no coverage. And certainly not the breathless reporting it has been receiving in the news media in American.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4303629.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4678207.stm
http://www.dispatch.co.za/2007/06/29/Foreign/abomb.html

One of the car bombs in England was parked in the middle of the night. Yes, it was in the club district, but to time the explosion with the emptying of the night clubs would require a pretty sophisticated detonation timer. With reports that the bomb was defused by hand, it would seem that the level of sophistication was not high.

One of the car bombs in England was connected to a tow truck, and towed out of the busy nightclub district, without detonating. The next morning, the tow company, upon seeing reports of the first incident, and recalling a gas smell, called to have it inspected.

The third incident, was so incompetently carried out, the first reports tell us the only person injured was the driver or passenger of the jeep - who set himself on fire. (The latest report also includes one injured traveller at the airport. I await confirmation).

These were acts of incompetence. Yes, there was bad intent. But, if all actors with bad intent behaved like this, we really would have no worry.

I will further point out that the billions of dollars the United States and British governments have spent in their global war proved inadequate to the task of discovering and preventing these attacks. An ambulance out on a call to a different location noticed the unusual first car, and reported it. Our "Homeland Security Departments" demonstrated their inadequacies.

Lastly, my point was, and is, that our 'democratic' governments, each time they were presented with issues of this sort, have over-reacted, and placed restrictions upon the citizens that seem unconnected to the root cause. How will they react, how can they react, when the 'new' weapon (shoes / toothpaste) is the engine of our civilization - petroleum and propane? Perhaps, the ridiculousness of idea of having 1 gallon reservoirs in our automobiles could be paralleled to the ridiculousness of not being able to take shaving cream in our carry one luggage.

Also, our First Amendment Free Press seizes upon incidents like this, and reacts like it is a missing white woman, or Paris Hilton speeding ticket.


Several random thoughts.

Lamont - my reputation has been disabled almost from the inception of the application.

Tez3 - Thank you for the correct spelling. I believe that any attempt to compare 911 to these car bombs is beyond silly. I also believe that were I to attempt to analogize these attempts to the 77 attacks would be just as silly.

Bob - I don't think that I was attempting to be 'funny' in that sense of the word.