In the video you posted, the commentator/trainer noted that most workout routines have a combination of isolation and compound training methods. So does VT/WC. However, like you I prefer methods involve total body movement ...both arms, stepping, turning, kicks and leg work. And, I would agree with you, that even among the forms, SNT involves isolating movements. ...for simplicity, for clarity, to build a foundation. Is that wrong?
Personal insights from Siu Nim Tao practice
- Thread starter Marnetmar
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In the video you posted, the commentator/trainer noted that most workout routines have a combination of isolation and compound training methods. So does VT/WC. However, like you I prefer methods involve total body movement ...both arms, stepping, turning, kicks and leg work. And, I would agree with you, that even among the forms, SNT involves isolating movements. ...for simplicity, for clarity, to build a foundation. Is that wrong?
ShortBridge
3rd Black Belt
I think he was asking people who also practice Wing Chun if he was thinking right or wrong about his form. I don't think he was asking "hey people on the internet who don't like Wing Chun, do you think Wing Chun is right or wrong?"
But, hey, why not hang out in a forum dedicated to something you have distain for and hijack discusions on something they care about? I mean, you gotta be you,right?
I may like WC more than you think. Many of my "entering strategies - such as protect center from inside out" came from the WC system.
Gotta say that even though I often disagree with what John says about WC, he is a very experienced Chinese martial artist and his comments always get me thinking. We need more people like that on this forum.
I can only speak from my experience in various wing chun lineages. The first form emphasizes isolation of technique so that you have no excuses. At a basic level, you're standing still and just moving your arms, so there is no excuse to do the technique wrong.
The punch in wing chun (unlike in other systems such as long fist, N. Shaolin etc) uses "Jiang Dai Lik" (low elbow power) as its primary method of power generation. This is not to say that wing chun does not use hip power, it can, and often does, but the primary source of power is generated from the thrusting of the elbow via the triceps muscle. In terms of learning total body unification and movement, Chum Kiu emphasizes that. Not to mention various turning stance drills. The usage of Jiang Dai Lik can then be transmitted to many other techniques (tan sao for example). Jiang Dai Lik can be combined with hip power to increase the range of the strike and the power via a rotation of the hips, often coordinated with a step.
The punch in wing chun (unlike in other systems such as long fist, N. Shaolin etc) uses "Jiang Dai Lik" (low elbow power) as its primary method of power generation. This is not to say that wing chun does not use hip power, it can, and often does, but the primary source of power is generated from the thrusting of the elbow via the triceps muscle. In terms of learning total body unification and movement, Chum Kiu emphasizes that. Not to mention various turning stance drills. The usage of Jiang Dai Lik can then be transmitted to many other techniques (tan sao for example). Jiang Dai Lik can be combined with hip power to increase the range of the strike and the power via a rotation of the hips, often coordinated with a step.
Parky
Yellow Belt
'This is not to say that wing chun does not use hip power, it can, and often does, but the primary source of power is generated from the thrusting of the elbow via the triceps muscle.'
Not to nitpick, but I respectfully have to disagree with the statement above. It is the muscle groups in the shoulder area that should be powering the elbow and in turn the upper arm. And to use the word 'Thrusting' of the elbow implies that we want to push the elbow forward. I would argue that instead we want the elbow to rotate about the centerpoint of the shoulder. How we 'Think' about how we are moving our body affects what muscle groups engage to actually move parts of our body. This 'Way of Thinking' is part of the training in our formwork. For example in the Wing Chun I practice they talk about 'Elbow Power'. The elbow does not power anything. But thinking about powering the upper arm from the 'elbow' helps you mentally shut off the bicep and tricep which can act as brakes (if engaged too much) when we punch, or do any other similar movement like tan, fook, etc. And furthermore thinking Elbow Power leads to you using primarily the shoulder musculature to drive the movement. Your comment jumped out at me because for many years I used to push my elbow, rather than rotate my elbow, having been taught that that was 'Elbow Power'. That approach never worked very well for me. The way I do things now works very well. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, but there are no absolutes in WC. There are other ways. If you still think the tricep is the best way to power your arms, fold your arm in front of you against your own body with elbow down and hand up and have someone place a hand on your wrist to stop you from unfolding and extending your hand. Without using anything other than tricep muscle to open your arm, see if you can do it. Cheers!
Not to nitpick, but I respectfully have to disagree with the statement above. It is the muscle groups in the shoulder area that should be powering the elbow and in turn the upper arm. And to use the word 'Thrusting' of the elbow implies that we want to push the elbow forward. I would argue that instead we want the elbow to rotate about the centerpoint of the shoulder. How we 'Think' about how we are moving our body affects what muscle groups engage to actually move parts of our body. This 'Way of Thinking' is part of the training in our formwork. For example in the Wing Chun I practice they talk about 'Elbow Power'. The elbow does not power anything. But thinking about powering the upper arm from the 'elbow' helps you mentally shut off the bicep and tricep which can act as brakes (if engaged too much) when we punch, or do any other similar movement like tan, fook, etc. And furthermore thinking Elbow Power leads to you using primarily the shoulder musculature to drive the movement. Your comment jumped out at me because for many years I used to push my elbow, rather than rotate my elbow, having been taught that that was 'Elbow Power'. That approach never worked very well for me. The way I do things now works very well. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, but there are no absolutes in WC. There are other ways. If you still think the tricep is the best way to power your arms, fold your arm in front of you against your own body with elbow down and hand up and have someone place a hand on your wrist to stop you from unfolding and extending your hand. Without using anything other than tricep muscle to open your arm, see if you can do it. Cheers!
