Peripheral Vision or not ..

jellyman

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Well, fwiw, I should note that on no videos or classes have I seen do VV or MR tilt their head back (which would break form, a fundemental nono).

But let's apply some analytical thinking. How do you look over someone's head without movnig your head and breaking your form? Rolling your eyes.

Rolling your eyes up slightly won't seriously effect your range of vision , but most or at least more of the image of your assailant from 6 feet away (for lack of a better standard, I'm using the distance they used to start us off from in tournaments from back in the day as a standard) will fall into the peripheral zone, outside the foeva centralis. As an experiment, I just walked 6 feet away from the corner of a wall of my office (not too many people in right now). I chucked a pen at the floor while directing my gaze a few degrees up from the horizantal, above my height. Without focusing on the pen, I had no trouble seeing it as it skittered across the floor past the corner.

Up close of course, the whole thing changes.

If you take it that most fights start at punching range, you want to get the upper body under the foeva, so you roll the eyes slightly then, too.

The science is there, and I aim to try this out tonight. Fact is, it is rarely if ever mentioned in class, but I do remember, now that I think of it, noticing an odd upward kant to the eye's of VV, MR, and James from Latvia from time to time. I think, though, that this is really applicable only in certain situations, like a kumite/sparring/squareoff situation. 90% of the close work we do is directed by feel, not vision, at least for me, and if somone surprises you, you have no time to adjust your eyes. On the other hand, as an excercise, rolling your eyes would get you better at recognizing the things you see outside of the foeva centralis, which could give you a better early warning systemm for the hook you weren't looking at, etc. etc..
 

arnisador

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I do understand some of the physiology that has been mentioned--ibdirect looking is used in other situations. I'd be more inclined to look to the side rather than above.

Thanks for the explanations, folks! It's very different from what I'm used to.
 
K

Kempo Guy

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FWIW, I have also heard (or rather been told) VV explain that it's not so much about looking above the opponent's head, but looking "beyond" them (and that the translation in the guidebook was not entirely accurate).

KG
 

NYCRonin

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Kempoguy
that is a good addition. Vlad often feels that the translations and (actually) his statements - sometimes do NOT translate well to english.
Then again, sometimes words are not the most effective method of communication anyway...ya gotta 'do the work' - and I also wish that my words could convey the beauty of this methodology - I cant, though.
I now 'do' and usually leave the explanations to the more accomplished wordsmiths.
I would really rather 'show', and wish I could through this medium.
 
K

Kempo Guy

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I am not very articulate when it comes to this stuff either. Although watching Coach Sonnon's tapes (Shockability and Fisticuffs in particular) helped me understand and increased my ability to articulate what's occuring during my Systema practice. (I don't want to start a flamewar, but it's what's been helpful for ME)


As for the "looking beyond" comment I made. It's been explained to me that when working with MR that he has the ability to look 'within' you... and make the experience of attacking him very intimate. Very intriguing. Unfortunately I missed the Toronto seminar a few weeks ago, but hope to attend next year.

KG
 

NYCRonin

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KempoGuy

Quote: As for the "looking beyond" comment I made. It's been explained to me that when working with MR that he has the ability to look 'within' you... and make the experience of attacking him very intimate.

In some of Vlad's video's - there is a section showing the annual trip to Russia...I was on the 2001 trip (along with some fine folks who post here).
When you see the promo on the tapes...and you heart Valerie vasilieve's voice over state "Some members wanted to test Mikhail with more realistic attacks..." you will see a guy trying to stab him in the face with a metal blade...and getting pretty well dinged for his efforts. That was me kissing the clay at the hotel Olympietz. I agree with your assessment of the experience.
See you in Toronto next year.
RobG
 
K

Kempo Guy

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RobG,

Which tapes of Vlad's show this? I have several of them and am wondering if I just didn't pay attention to it...

I am planning on going to Aiki Expo this fall so perhaps we'll meet sooner. :) I hope to have more Systema training under my belt by then, although it's been a little difficult to get to lately (I commute 1 hour each way once to twice a week to train) as my job requires long unexpected hours.

In any event, thanks for sharing.

KG
 

NYCRonin

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Would depend on how old your tapes are - the recent editions of 'Beyond the physical' and 'Personal protection' have it...for example.
Yes, it seems that Vegas will be our first meeting. Looking forward to it!
 
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Pervaz

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I asked one of the russian guys who I was training with - and he agreed that you should be using your peripheral vision rather than looking striaght on. In regards where you should be looking (and if its 50% higher or lower than heads. knees or shoulders) I belive it where you are comfortable.
 
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Pervaz

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Where you look, and how you use your eyes in a fight
can be more important than you think. A lot of beginners
don't realize the importance of using their eyes.

Do you know the difference between rods and cones in
your eyes? Well, you don't have to -- just remember that
you see motion out of the corners of your eyes first.

So, if you are trying to detect motion, you probably
shouldn't look straight on at your attacker. Have you
noticed that the best martial artists seem to fight
with this 'sideways glance'?

So, if you are going to look out of the corners, where
do you look?

My answer depends on the context of the fight. I have
two theories -- use whichever you need at a specific time.




THEORY ONE
Focus on the trunk of your opponent's body. You use your
peripheral vision to catch the motion of the limbs. By
focusing on the abdomen-to-chest area, you won't get faked
out by a feint with the punch ... hopefully.

You see more if you start with your opponent's center
and then let your focus expand outward from there.




THEORY TWO

Focus on the hands and the feet. Some of you were
taught to scan the perimeter, when you enter a new
situation ... like a restaurant, or a party. You make a
scan of the outer edges.


This theory is exactly that. You scan your opponents'
hands and feet. Are they concealing anything?

You check out their weapons, so to speak. They will
probably attack with hand or foot, so put those
weapons under the microscope.




COMBINING THE TWO

You can actually blend the two 'tactics for visual
analysis.' Examine the hands and feet at a greater
distance. Use it as sort of a pre, cursory examination.

Then, when it's time effect your martial arts
stance -- you don't reveal that you are a martial
artist too soon, by snapping into a formal pose ...
I mean stance -- you look out of the corner
of your eyes.

To sum all of this up, you scan their weapons first,
reveal your stance when you have to, then let an
sideways glance at the trunk take over.


Now, the real question is what are you looking for?

From Kerwin Benson
 

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