People who live in glass houses should'nt throw rocks!!

[Bester]

What is the big deal?
Some egos left, and some liars were exposed.

I have read several posts by many of those mentioned....better they are kept away from keyboards, lest they insert that into their mouths next.

To quote an associate of mine...."Ah! Arrogence and Stupidity, all in one package....how efficient of you."


When others do a foolish thing, you should tell them it is a foolish thing. They can still continue to do it, but at least the truth is where it needs to be.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

It seems David Schultz (ARK) has not been on martial talk for over a year. It sounds silly to keep attacking him every where you go Don. Don't you have anything better to do? I agree with Kaith.I never had a problem with a question being asked.

The problem was with the asking of the same question a thousand times, from a dozen people creating a gang-enviroment.

Those so fixated on the busting activities that they crossed the lines of decorum.
How many police investigations have been thrown out due to the 'zeal' of those investigating it, which resulted in the guilty going free?

That happened here.

Evidence couldn't be simply posted and allowed to work. No, a confession must be made, the guilty ridden until the entire universe sees the rightness of the holy cause.

Well...the busters all left. and..you know what?

The guilty folks, after being given enough rope, hung themselves.
In a few cases...badly!

All without frothing at the mouth, hundreds of warnings, suspensions, bannings or public beratings.

And, the guilty parties are now either banned, booted , barred or watched ver closely on a dozen forums.

All we ever asked those interested in verifying credibility to do was work within our guidelines and rules. They couldn't, hense the problems.

Would you applaud the rogue cop, who breaks the law repeatedly in his pursuit of what he sees as 'justice'? How about the self-appointed cop, who breaks the law while chaising his prey?

If you find someone who is a fraud, post it. Don't keep beating it like a dead horse.

 

[KennethKu]

Sir,

I do argue just yo argue.

I do take sides I do not agree with to play devil's advocate.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal

I respect those men and women who served our country. :asian: THis is not about being pro USA or not. (* Good knee jerk arguement there - I agree it does get people thinking I am hateful of our Military boys and girls. I do not *)

This about individuals and me. And how I Saw it go down.

I could read it from your point of view that you believe it ok to kill the school kids with automatic weapons as the police are storming a drug house. So it is ok for innocent people to also be hurt in the pursuit of the quest.

So I could take you sir as a NAZI willing to kill those for your goals of superiority. Yet, I choose not too, for I believe that you may not wish to have presented your self as such. Just like you thought I was a Bleeding heart Liberal. That still makes me laugh.

Enjoy and Have a Nice Day
:asian:

I don't care to respond to this as it is obvious that you will never understand. The Yilli folks have tried in vain to enlighten you.

 

[KennethKu]

I never had a problem with a question being asked.

The problem was with the asking of the same question a thousand times, from a dozen people creating a gang-enviroment.

Those so fixated on the busting activities that they crossed the lines of decorum.
How many police investigations have been thrown out due to the 'zeal' of those investigating it, which resulted in the guilty going free?

That happened here.

Evidence couldn't be simply posted and allowed to work. No, a confession must be made, the guilty ridden until the entire universe sees the rightness of the holy cause.

Well...the busters all left. and..you know what?

The guilty folks, after being given enough rope, hung themselves.
In a few cases...badly!

All without frothing at the mouth, hundreds of warnings, suspensions, bannings or public beratings.

And, the guilty parties are now either banned, booted , barred or watched ver closely on a dozen forums.

All we ever asked those interested in verifying credibility to do was work within our guidelines and rules. They couldn't, hense the problems.

Would you applaud the rogue cop, who breaks the law repeatedly in his pursuit of what he sees as 'justice'? How about the self-appointed cop, who breaks the law while chaising his prey?

Follow our rules, present your evidence, then let things run their course. Was all we ever asked....but, we asked too much of the 'heros' it seemed.

Of course, you can always resort to "this is my board and I can run it anyway I damn way please."

With all due respect, wake up and smell the coffee, Bob. The way MT staff handled that incident, has wrecked tremenduous damage to MT reputation. In the MA online community, the MT team is a laughing stock because they got taken for a ride by a couple of crooks. Yes, in the end, the crooks got exposed and ousted. But no thanks to you. It was by the effort of mods of other boards.

Honestly, the way you folks describe Mike Clark, Robert Rousellot, Mike Hachey, Mike Stone and Phillip Starrs, reflects badly on yourselves.

 

[KennethKu]

.....If you find someone who is a fraud, post it......

Isn't that exactly what Don Roley has done?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You can believe what you wish...rehashing it will get us nowhere.

As to the reputation, some damage was done, and some good came out of it. People too ignorant, inconsiderate or arrogant to follow the concepts of netiquette or the posted rules simply aren't welcome here.

The simple fact was...the frauds played those 'heros' like fine violins, until they snapped. The rope that hung them was spun here. Anyone doing enough reading, with any level of intelligence will see that, and understand a simple truism: A liar can never keep -all- their lies straight.

There is a phrase: "Time will either promote you, or expose you."
There were alot of shortcomings exposed in those 'wars'.
Some tend to be too short sighted to see all of them.


As to Mr. Roley.... he needs to learn what did in his predecessors. There are ways to diseminate the information he seeks within our rules. Considering I can't recall him being issued alot (if any) warnings, nor having to have gone so 'frothy' that suspensions were warrented...I would say he's learned quite alot.

As we've said repeatedly...there are ways. Being a jerk (which was often the case previously) is not one of them.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

99.9 percent of Mr. Roley post are about exposing some kind of fraud. Usually it is the same people over and over and over. It sounds like a broken record. There is more to the martial arts then trying to expose all the frauds in it. If you are into the martial arts to expose the frauds only, then you are in it for the wrong reasons.

 

[Don Roley]

And if your purpose in the martial arts is to tell people how they should act as you want them to, you should not be in martial arts. :uhyeah:

Seriously, what makes you think I spend 99 percent of my time in martial arts even on the computer, let alone busting frauds? It is just that when I am faced with so many obviously incompetent frauds leading others astray, I feel the need to point things out rather than let innocents be fooled just so that I can feel that I am acting in a superior manner of politeness.

And I do not give much information about my art on the internet after seeing just how many of the frauds out there collect and repackage the stuff to help their stories. I used to be known as a guy to ask about Japanese history and such. Now I tend to answer questions on the matter with resources they should check themselves rather than with an easy answer.

Sad, but the amount of frauds out there kind of make it a neccesity.

 

[Cruentus]

Sad, but the amount of frauds out there kind of make it a neccesity.

This is very true, and a sad fact of the martial arts today. There are too many frauds in martial arts, period. I can understand Don's (btw, Don has been very informative to me at times, so I am not seeing that he only spends his time "fraud busting"), and even Robert Rousellot's fustrations with this, as I share many of the same fustrations. In martial arts, "truth" can be changed so easily to fit an agenda; no other industry that I know of is as ridden with lies as martial arts. So, Fraud busting has it's place.

Now, I am the kind of guy who shoots from the hip. If I think your an A-hole, I am inclined to say, "your an A-hole." I have gotten in trouble for this, um, "straightforwardness" here before (and rightfully so).

The fact is, in life, you can't just act any way you damn well please. If I told a prospective client that "he was being a moron" with his investments, I don't think I'd be able to bring in the business. The same rules in life apply to "netiquette." Bob, and the Moderators of this board have decided that they don't want a community where people can behave anyway they want. Because when you have that kind of community, your are only left with a few blow-hard jerks who managed to "name-call" and "slam" every other normal, good person out of the community. Now, if you want to name call and argue with a handful of blow-hards, I am sure that there are OTHER forums to accomidate you. However, the other almost 3,000 members here would rather that THIS board doesn't degenerate to that. (I don't know why I have to explain this to "adults" )

On that note, Robert Rousellot was a very informative member while he was here, and I liked a lot of what he had to say. He was also a blow-hard jerk who couldn't manage to play by the rules for the life of him. The mods may not have handled him "perfectly," but Robert brought it on himself with his behavior. And, as much as I like the "Yili crowd," they were wrong for leaving because of that incident. It seems that they forgot that in life there are rules, and if you break them then there will be consequences.

You can bust frauds. You can show others that someone is a liar, A-hole, or an idiot. The MT mods are saying that you just have to play by the rules when you do so. You can't resort to name-calling, or "stalking" from thread to thread to slam someone. In real life, this is called harassment, and when you are guilty, you look like a bigger jerk then the "fraud" you are trying to bust. There are a million ways to call some a liar, an A-hole, or an Idiot, without breaking the rules. See....watch:


KennethKu,

I don't care to respond to this as it is obvious that you will never understand. The Yilli folks have tried in vain to enlighten you.

You should look in the mirror my friend, before you houghtily slam on Rich for being "unenlightened." You seem to think that the mods have some sort of agenda simply because they don't agree with your philosophy of "fraud bust at all costs." Perhaps, they simply understand that sometimes when you win, you lose. This means that "fraud busting" isn't worth is if it means chasing other good (non-fraud) members away through poor netiquette and bullying behavior. Maybe they don't believe in compromising their values (or the values of this board) for a fraud busting agenda. Perhaps they, like most logical people, understand that you don't have to cut your nose off to spite your face, meaning that you can "fraud-bust" without making this community a bad place to be.

Besides, you should be glad that rules are in place. You have made some pretty bizarre claims yourself regarding "iron palm" training, with no proof to back you claims:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10339&page=2&pp=15&highlight=Iron+Palm (page 2 of this thread)
How would you feel if you were chased around every interent community because of some of the things YOU have claimed?

Exactly. It's nice having some regulation to prevent poor netiquette isn't it?

PAUL


See, there are always ways so say what you mean while playing by the rules.

 

[marshallbd]

Honestly, the way you folks describe Mike Clark, Robert Rousellot, Mike Hachey, Mike Stone and Phillip Starrs, reflects badly on yourselves.

Who? :asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Who? :asian:

Yea...exactly. People who were here and gone over a year ago, that Kenneth can't seem to let go.

 

[marshallbd]

Yea...exactly. People who were here and gone over a year ago, that Kenneth can't seem to let go.

I figured it was something like that...

 

[KennethKu]

Paul,

Your comment about what I posted regarding Iron Palm as being bizarre, only reflects your total lack of basic knowledge in hard style martial art training as well as your lack of medical knowledge. That is the only reason you would find it "bizarre". A knowledgeable hard style martial artist would have little problem in deciphering my info. The fundamental training technique is in the public domain. That is nothing new. What is new is my colleaque and I have incorporated transdermal delivery of chemicals that enhance recovery and reduce the risk tissue, tendon, ligament and bone damage. We have also modified the training procedure in accordance to new knowledge in physiology and sport science. Excellence in martial art performance is in science, not in "tradition".

If someone doed not understand science, it is not surprising that he would find it "bizarre".

If anyone care to hound me over this (or anything for that matter), I certainly could not give a rat *** about it. lol Bring it! lol

Unlike the con artists, I am not in this for anything. You or anyone's view or opinions of me, favourable or not, mean absolutely f@#$ S@#$ to me. lol

 

[KennethKu]

Yea...exactly. People who were here and gone over a year ago, that Kenneth can't seem to let go.

Allow me to elaborate.

After being off for almost a year, I just got back being a bit more active in the online world. Looking at the posts in MT forum, I couldn't help but missed the posters such as Martial Artist, Jill, the Yilli folks, Robert, Mike Clark etc. It is truly sad to see how MT has degenerated from an informative forum into the "elementary school yard".

It saddens me to see the facts being so liberally distorted. Mind you, these people who quit, did not get "done in" or could not "follow the rules". They left because they were disgusted at the arbitrary enforcement of the rules, the lack of objectivity, fairness on the part of the Mod team. They refused to be associated with people who lack the sense of personal duty to speak out against moral wrongs. People are incline to smear these people. The fact is, Martial Artist, Jill, Philip Starr, Mike Clark have never ever even gotten on a pissing match with anyone.

I am just sharing what has been circulating beyond the border of MT. It isn't a matter of my personal view or opinions. Shooting the messenger ain't get you anywhere. (Not that has stopped anyone from doing just that. Nor would I be concerned.)

 

[KennethKu]

And if your purpose in the martial arts is to tell people how they should act as you want them to, you should not be in martial arts. :uhyeah:

Seriously, what makes you think I spend 99 percent of my time in martial arts even on the computer, let alone busting frauds? It is just that when I am faced with so many obviously incompetent frauds leading others astray, I feel the need to point things out rather than let innocents be fooled just so that I can feel that I am acting in a superior manner of politeness.

And I do not give much information about my art on the internet after seeing just how many of the frauds out there collect and repackage the stuff to help their stories. I used to be known as a guy to ask about Japanese history and such. Now I tend to answer questions on the matter with resources they should check themselves rather than with an easy answer.

Sad, but the amount of frauds out there kind of make it a neccesity.

You see, Don, some people are bornt with a strong sense of personal duty to speak out against moral wrongs. That's what separates men from boys.

 

[Don Roley]

Who? :asian:

The people mentioned were the ones who are responsible for letting me and others know that something was wrong and someone with dubious claims was very active on these boards.

Here is the thread where I first became aware of what was going on.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7667

Despite the idea that the frauds eventually hanged themselves, I have to point out that they did so because of the groundwork laid by folks such as Robert. Sometimes you need a guy to calmly present the truth. Sometimes you need someone to stand up on the table and scream, "HE IS A GOD DAMN LIAR AND A FRAUD!"

It was Robert that pointed out that David Schultz was a member of the Korean Yudo and Hapkido Association but was unaware of the Korean term for teacher. That led to an inquiry by me into Jack Stern. The things I found out about Stern through sources like John Connoly led to Schultz trying to attack and discredit Connoly. And it seems to be for that activities that he has gotten tossed off of this and another board.

Here are just a few examples of what I am talking about.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=149780#post149780

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=149773#post149773

You can see that "Mr Buster" continues the attack on another board in the last few weeks.

http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5092&page=1

Schultz and Craine seem to be saying that Connoly has to be a fraud and should not be listened to because he claims many high ranks. This is an unusual strategy to take considering his own number of high ranks claimed as well as his close relationship with Brent Fuller. Fuller's claims can be found at the following link.

http://www.icmaua.com/ArtistsEncyclopediaF.htm

So, if Robert had not started the ball with others, the fraud would never have gone to the lengths he did to hang himself. And we would still be blessed with the presence of a Virtual Sensei with inflated claims.

 

[Bester]

I am just sharing what has been circulating beyond the border of MT.

I looked myself based on your suggestion and find little negative mentioned elsewhere.

To be honest, I found a few links to various 'buster' threads here concerning 'ARK' and those individuals you mentioned...many of those same posts were lacking a certain level of maturity one might expect in the true martial artist.

Certainly no "Don't go there" warnings.

So, wheres the 'poop'? Links?

 

[KennethKu]

Those who need to know, know what I am talking about.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Those who need to know, know what I am talking about.

:rofl: Yup, the "Buster Brigade" in their "Sekret Liar", have all the evidence on how 'evul' we are, and how we coddle the villians, and conspire to drive off the hard working, honest, honorable 'seekers of truth justice and the constipated way'.

Unless you have the 'Sekret Decoder Ring', you just can't find it.

Kenneth...I combed E-Budo looking for such 'laughing stock' materials...
Found a few threads as the 'PsiCop' said that pointed to the 'Grand ARK War' here and elsewhere. Nothing else really. I went to BudoSeek....nope...no warnings there. Hell, I even went to Bullshido..and outside of 1 of our rejects spouting off at the mouth didn't find much.

Dude, I hate to say it, but if we're that evil a bunch of SOBs here....where is the evidence? A dozen frat-rats out of 6 billion people doesn't constitue a majority, even in a Florida Election.

Now...one can argue that there are gaps in certain areas here.
We don't currently have an active expert on many arts.
We aren't the leading source of information on many things.
Well....we are slowly working on that.
Our goal is to provide a calm enviroment to allow discussions, not witch hunts.
You want 'anything goes'? Try USENET or the mudhut forums.
You want scholastical discussions on blades? Try BladeForums or SwordForums.
You want to deal with a large group of gajin livin and breathin in the heart of Japan? E-Budo for you.
You want to be able to swear and rant and measure genitals without fear of a spanking? Well, there are forums for that sort of juvinileness as well.

Unlike 1 forum I won't mention, we won't go through and delete all references to other boards. Just not afraid of the competition...hell, I encourage it. I'll work with almost any board admin to help improve things. Its why we have the MT Net. Part advice, part info sharing, and R&D, and part peer. Open to any MA site admin willing to share.

But, I forget... we're well known for sucking. I mean, "everyone knows"..even though several hours of searching turned up squat. It this all listed on Internet2 maybe?

I'm sorry, but the PM's, Emails and even public 'attaboys' we get seem to say otherwise. Maybe they are all part of that secret group of elite experts though who left in a huff when we said "No, youve proven your point. You don't need to say it again. 10,000 times was more than sufficient."

Whatever.

The threads in question are still here. Anyone who cares can go do a search.
Heres some terms: ARK RyuShiKan Korean Yudo & Hapkido Association Also, look through the JMA, Horror story, and support forums.
Its all there, the busters, the bustees and the fopas.

Enjoy. I'm going to go relax and watch Iron Chef America.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

2 additional points:
ARKs account here was closed August 2003
DAC's account was closed April 2004