Pencak Silat Mande Muda

Discussion in 'Indochinese Martial Arts - General' started by Ninway J, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. Ninway J

    Ninway J Guest

    I just started training in Pencak Silat Mande Muda a few weeks ago, and I'm enjoying it. I noticed that a lot of the drills are similar to wing chun. Also, some of the jurus are similar to schemes in Saito Ninjitsu in that there are lots of un-balancement, takedowns, and finishing-off the opponent at the head or neck. I was amazed after learning the "triangle principle." It's such a simple, but amazing principle.

    It feels a bit awkward for me to do some of the jurus and drills because I'm so used to striking while generating power from the waist, as in many japanese or chinese arts. However, our instructor mentioned that one difference between silat and, say karate, is that we're not there to initially look for that one powerful blow to end the fight. Instead we want to irritate and distract the opponent so much to finally take him down.

    Harimau is killer! They should call it "Indonesian Buns of Steel Training." Heh! We did 6 of the 13 Harimau this past Tuesday, and I'm still feeling the pain. Two other students did all 13, then repeated! I don't know how they could do that! It was amazing. Our instuctors said they usually don't teach Harimau until the 3rd level, but they figured they'd give us a taste of how it is, and that we should practice what we remember daily, or do number 2 (up-and-down) ten times a day to build strength in the legs. It's also what Pak Herman recommended.

    It's unofficial, but I think someone from Indonesia is coming to Hawaii for a seminar this August. I think it's Pak Dadang Gunawan(?). I'll post when more info becomes available. :)
     
  2. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    12,341
    Likes Received:
    416
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Athol, Ma. USA
    Would you please explain the general prinipal of one of the Harimau drills for us.
     
  3. OUMoose

    OUMoose Trying to find my place

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Welcome to the fold. :)

    Aye, anyone who's done Harimau for more that one or 2 reps knows exactly what you're talking about. but it should be "indonesian buns, legs, and calves of steel". :)

    Where are you training? Do they have an individual website or some information?
     
  4. Michael Billings

    Michael Billings Senior Master

    • Advisor
    • Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,964
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Austin, Texas USA-Terra
    Think of a Tumbling or Rolling Tiger, that is Harimau. It is totally impressive to watch a good player, like our own [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]pesilat ( Mike Casto).

    -MB
    [/font]
     
  5. Ninway J

    Ninway J Guest

    Thank you for the warm welcome.

    The general principle of one of the Harimau drills...get down and fight like a Tiger? :shrug: So far it seems to be great for strengthening the legs, as well as getting your hands in the correct positions for blocks, parries, and arm-locks. I've been told that Harimau is mostly having the attitude, or spirit, of a tiger, aside from the techniques.

    I train in Hilo, Hawaii. I don't think we have an individual website for our class exclusively. There's just the Suwanda Academy website at www.suwandaacademy.com/ Our instructors are Leroy Pasalo and Dr. Kathy Ohara.

    I've seen Pesilat (Mike Casto) in action in some of his video links, but not doing Harimau drills. I'd love to see it. He seems to be very knowledgeable in Indonesian martial arts, and humble as well.
     
  6. OULobo

    OULobo Senior Master

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    I always love to hear of a new silat player, especially in Mande Muda. I just got back yesterday from a Mande Muda weekend camp in TX. We had 6 jagabaya teaching a sub-system at a time. We warmed up both mornings with stretches and lankas. We had a few new comers so we only did 7 or the thirteen. My legs are a really tight today and I have been doing a ton of hari mau drills. For shadowchaser, the lakas of harimau are sets of leg intesive movements that focus in low squat stances and transitions. They are designed to show entrance and build mobility and strength. On mention of upcoming seminars, I heard that Ibu Rita's husband will be in Miami sometime soon for a seminar.

    Oh yeah and I won a few prizes in the camp raffle. I walked out with a new golok and a practice kujang, while my fiance' walked out with a new sarong she won.
     
  7. Stick Dummy

    Stick Dummy Guest

    Salamat!



    No Pain, No Gain! :erg: Heh-heh!


    The full compliment of Pencat Silat exercises beats the hell out off a Gym membership.

    OUlobo - Which subsets were shown?? That sounds like a real workout.
     
  8. Ninway J

    Ninway J Guest

    OULobo, sounds like you had a nice time.

    There's quite a few words that I'm still learning and trying to remember. I kind-of know what is harimau, jurus, pacahan, timangan, and jagabaya. I probably misspelled some of those, heh. I'm guessing lankas are set forms or techniques? Golok is a part of traditional attire? Kujang must be a weapon? I know what a sarong is. Some of these words sound like Ilocano words, so they are easier for me to remember.

    Ibu Rita's husband, that must be Pak Dadang Gunawan. Our instructors mentioned that he rarely visits the U.S. He'll probably stop here in Hawaii on the way to, or from, Miami.

    Stick Dummy, I have a gym membership and train in Silat. However, I don't do legs or cardio at the gym because I know I'll work those in Silat class. :)
     
  9. OUMoose

    OUMoose Trying to find my place

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Lankas are what most people would consider "long forms", where Jurus (or djurus as I've seen it spelled) are "short forms". Lankas, though, are more sporatic and flowing than strict and "form-like". Maybe I'm making the description more difficult that it needs to be.

    A Golok is actually a weapon, similar to a machete. If the gods of UBB code will allow a picture (crosses fingers):

    [​IMG]

    A Kujang is a sickle-type weapon. Ibu Rita is actually holding one in this picture (sends offerings to the UBB gods again):

    [​IMG]

    Hope that helps!
     
  10. OULobo

    OULobo Senior Master

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    It's not really Mande Muda without Cimande and Hari Mau, but we also did Kari, Madi, Cipicut, Pamoyet, Syabandar, and Rikisan, the only thing I don't remember seeing was Cikalong and Sabatan. My mind is still mush from all the info. Usually an instructor shows a subsystem or two and runs with just that, but with so many instructors, the info was overwelming.


    Just for the people that might not know.
    These are rough definitions and as always I am still learning, so they might be off. Also there is a bit of semantics, slang and regional word usage involved.

    hari mau (Bahasa Indonesia) = tiger
    pamacan (Sundanese) = father tiger
    jurus = forms (kind of)
    jagabaya = carrier of the art (roughly)
    lankas = footwork forms
    golok = generic term for a one-sided blunt ended machete
    kujang = traditional knife of both everyday use and religious significance (see Moose's pic), I've found that the kujang is the muslim version of the kudi. The kudi is the roughly the same knife without the peircings that represent the pillars of Islam.

    I believe the Moro term for the sarong is the manong.
     
  11. Stick Dummy

    Stick Dummy Guest

    OUlobo,

    Ahhhhh - The "Danger Will Robinson" school of instruction.

    Sounds like a really great time and you definately took home some REAL treasures in addition to the knowledge gleaned.

    That Golok rocks!!, love the symmetry of handle & blade.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. OULobo

    OULobo Senior Master

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Thanks stick dummy it was great. If you like the golok that Moose posted, it is available at Valiant Blades. They make modern repros of traditional blades.

    Sometimes I am such a fool. The term is malong, not manong. Malong is a general purpose woven batik or ikat for men, manong is a cheif or master title. Please excuse my mistake.
     
  13. Ninway J

    Ninway J Guest

    Thanks, OUMoose, and all. All the new words and info seem overwhelming, but it'll take time. That golok looks wicked. I love the look of wide-bladed weapons.

    I must have learned my first "lanka" this past tuesday. Our instructors said it is the first form we will learn. It is part of the panadaran (sp?) forms, and it is done to the banging of a gong. Maybe you all know what I'm talking about?

    We just found out that Pak Dadang Gunawan will, most-likely, not be stopping in Hawaii this summer. :( I guess he'll be going straight to Florida. Oh well. We will try to get him at a later time.

    Heh, manong is almost the same as in Ilocano, used to address an older brother. Can anyone here speak pretty good Indonesian? I'm guessing there's hundreds, if not thousands of dialects.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Ninway J

    Ninway J Guest

    Oh, speaking of Indonesian words, we had our uniform t-shirts printed by a local shop and they screwed-up on one particular letter on all of the shirts. It said "Nande Muda" instead of Mande Muda. The stupid thing is they printed shirts for our class before, correctly. Anyway, we were wondering if "Nande" might mean something in Indonesian. Hopefully nothing bad. Of course, the shop is now re-printing new shirts at no cost.

    We wont wear those shirts to any seminars, of course, but if you see someone wearing a shirt saying "Nande Muda", you'll know where he or she is from! :uhyeah:
     
  15. ikenpo

    ikenpo Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2002
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Hasn't one of the major challenges for Mande Muda been that it (the curriculum) was never really very structured, even when Pak Herman was alive? Different people learned different information at different times, and Pak Herman being the free spirit that I've heard he was, would continually update the system. I guess my question is how has Mande Muda be able to evolve since Pak Herman's death? Through Ibu Rita? (was she really deported from the US for 5 years? I wonder if that is why her husband is now traveling to the US?) Has it evolved through the practices of the Jayagaba? Do they have the skills to move it forward? Or is the goal to preserve?

    My understanding was that the Jayagaba were a group that Pak Herman had designated as his chosen, but that he wasn't really able to move forward with it that much prior to his passing. He was more of a seminar instructor, right? Traveling year around to teach and support people (in his organization) and never really having a "base school" other than in Indonesia (other than maybe the Inosanto Academy)? I have a couple of friends that were "invited" to be a part prior to his passing, but were never formally brought in. I also have heard that the Jayagaba curriculum (a part or whatever) was committed to video and it "out there"....but Inodesian practicioners hold onto those vids with a death grip.


    I've seen his (Pak Herman's) MM tapes and for the layman that doesn't really understand Silat or the structure of learning it doesn't seem very applicable. Particularly for people that are ultra regemented like any of the Chinese, Japanese or American (Kenpo) arts. That is just a personal observation from when I first watched his tapes initially vs years later when I had a small amount of knowledge about Silat.

    Regards, jb
     
  16. OULobo

    OULobo Senior Master

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,140
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Wonderful questions? I am not a jagabaya and would never propose to speak for them, but I would like to humbly submit these opinions. Mande Muda, and Silat in general, are very dynamic and are constantly evolving. This question was raised at the seminar in TX. There were some teaching that chose to teach in a very traditional "this is what he showed and the way he showed it" kind of way, as well as some who showed the mechanics, but with a little personal flair. Some of the systems in MM have changed also. If you see a practitioner of a sub-system of a different generation than when Pak learned it, it will look somewhat different. This is the same as it is here in the States, where arts such as JKD, Aikido and others have different breeds that all changed while progressing from the source, just as the source can change with time also.

    Ibu is a source that changes too. She will teach what she likes and it will look a little different than how Pak looked. Ibu is indeed out of the states pending to government business and her husband is touring, though I will venture to say that the reasons aren't necessarily related in as much as he is just seeking to continue the tradition of spreading the art. The jagabaya are as always guides, guardians and interpretors in our journey, entrusted by the family for their abilities in those areas. The jagabaya are a generation of Pak's students that were the last to be signaled as teachers before his passing. As far as I know they do have a set of structured material that they hold as core. The fun part is that Pak had such a wealth of knowledge that all of them have this core and they have individual knowledge that Pak imparted to them each.

    Pak, and now Ibu, reached the vast majority of the U.S. MM practitioners through seminars, but they groomed many at a base school in Indonesia. I assume there are native Indonesians there that have a better grasp of the full spectrum of the art. There are also a few here in the states that chose to stay for months or more to learn as much as possible from Pak. As for videos, they are indeed around. My opinion is that the tapes are created to be a library for those that know already, not a tool so that new members may learn. Silat is too free and creative to learn from a tape and possibly too vast to learn as a structured system, but a tape may trigger the memories of a practitioner so that he can refine his technique.

    Again, I would like to humbly state that I am, but a babe within the art and make the above statements as personal opinion and conjecture, and not any official stance.
     
  17. pesilat

    pesilat 3rd Black Belt

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Thanks Michael and Ninway :) I do my best. I enjoy Harimau and if I hit the ground, that's likely what'll come out of me. However, in all fairness, I should point out that there are far better Harimau players around than me - Bahati Merchant in Hawaii, Roy Hagan in St. Louis, and Kelly Smith in Plano, TX just to name a few.

    As far as a vid clip of me doing some Harimau, I've just posted one out there - especially for you Ninway :)

    Mike
     
  18. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Founding Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    12,341
    Likes Received:
    416
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Athol, Ma. USA
    Nice clip I enjoyed it and the others also
     

Share This Page