Patterns with high kicks that students can't do

[dvcochran]

My only theory has to do with antagonistic muscle relaxation. When a muscle is used, a relaxation signal is apparently sent to the antagonistic muscle, which signal would be absent in static stretch.

Very interesting. I have never heard that before.
I am convinced excessive flexibility can be more dangerous to joints than a lack of flexibility. I have seen people with "dish rag" flexibility and you can see the over extension in their joints. Inevitably this will happen when a joint is loaded or weight bearing. Just cannot be good when done repeatedly.

 

[granfire]

Very interesting. I have never heard that before.
I am convinced excessive flexibility can be more dangerous to joints than a lack of flexibility. I have seen people with "dish rag" flexibility and you can see the over extension in their joints. Inevitably this will happen when a joint is loaded or weight bearing. Just cannot be good when done repeatedly.

It is.
once upon a time, I thought I should pick up dancing again (at the decrepit age of 19)
one girl at the school was incredibly flexible, vs me, I have to stretch. Plenty.
She was maybe 20 or so.
We talked about flexibility briefly. The hyper flexibility is a curse in disguise. You dent to dislocate joints more easily.
Now, I did not stick it out long.
The instructor expected his charges to be in pointe shoes (ohhhh, the pain) and do more than one class a week.
But that stuck with me.
I do not know if the young lady trained to control the joint movement or just dealt with the fallout.

 

[WaterGal]

It is.
once upon a time, I thought I should pick up dancing again (at the decrepit age of 19)
one girl at the school was incredibly flexible, vs me, I have to stretch. Plenty.
She was maybe 20 or so.
We talked about flexibility briefly. The hyper flexibility is a curse in disguise. You dent to dislocate joints more easily.
Now, I did not stick it out long.
The instructor expected his charges to be in pointe shoes (ohhhh, the pain) and do more than one class a week.
But that stuck with me.
I do not know if the young lady trained to control the joint movement or just dealt with the fallout.

Yeah, I read an article a while back about how female athletes are more likely than male athletes to get sports injuries like ACL tears and dislocations. Apparently it's because we have more laxity in our connective tissue than men, which is needed in order to make childbirth possible, and means that women can be more flexible on average, but.... that's exactly the downside.

 

[granfire]

Yeah, I read an article a while back about how female athletes are more likely than male athletes to get sports injuries like ACL tears and dislocations. Apparently it's because we have more laxity in our connective tissue than men, which is needed in order to make childbirth possible, and means that women can be more flexible on average, but.... that's exactly the downside.

and once you do give birth, the body doesn't go back all the way either

 

[Gerry Seymour]

and once you do give birth, the body doesn't go back all the way either

You have to replace the bunjee cords every few years, or they don't snap back properly.

 

[granfire]

You have to replace the bunjee cords every few years, or they don't snap back properly.

Apropos snap back....Where is The Hobbit?!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Apropos snap back....Where is The Hobbit?!

She's around. She hasn't been on MT much - the politicized talk about coronavirus turned her off and she didn't want to get banned for what she wanted to say.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

She's around. She hasn't been on MT much - the politicized talk about coronavirus turned her off and she didn't want to get banned for what she wanted to say.

Hmm that explains why you felt emboldened to reply in the belt bunnies thread...

 

[Buka]

Yeah, I read an article a while back about how female athletes are more likely than male athletes to get sports injuries like ACL tears and dislocations. Apparently it's because we have more laxity in our connective tissue than men, which is needed in order to make childbirth possible, and means that women can be more flexible on average, but.... that's exactly the downside.

As for the ACL tears, especially non contact ACL tears, it has to do with the structure of the hips on females. The structure allows the knees to turn in more. If you watch a young woman jog, who hasn't been taught anything about running, if you're behind her you're likely to see a kick out with each foot. That's where you get problems.

But you can train that out fairly quickly (few months) by doing lunges in front of a mirror. You'll notice the knee trying to turn in. So what you have the student do is extend her open, flat hand and place it alongside the inside of the knee, (towards the bottom of the lunge) and keep it there as a guide. Works really well. I learned about it at a symposium taught by ACL docs for women's sports.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Yeah, I read an article a while back about how female athletes are more likely than male athletes to get sports injuries like ACL tears and dislocations. Apparently it's because we have more laxity in our connective tissue than men, which is needed in order to make childbirth possible, and means that women can be more flexible on average, but.... that's exactly the downside.

I think there is no doubt that women are, in general, naturally more flexible than guys for reasons given and perhaps others as well. Re: injuries, while there are physiological reasons as noted, there may be a mental aspect to it as well. Could it be that flexible women (and men) take their flexibility for granted and so may not exercise the same caution less stretchy humans do?

I had an experience at a tournament, stretching out (splits) before my match. I was feeling good and relaxed. But I took that feeling for granted and over-extended myself, tearing my hamstring. So, perhaps the moral to this issue is, no matter how flexible you may be (or think you are) there is a limit you must be conscious of.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hmm that explains why you felt emboldened to reply in the belt bunnies thread...

She's very used to such comments.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yeah, I read an article a while back about how female athletes are more likely than male athletes to get sports injuries like ACL tears and dislocations. Apparently it's because we have more laxity in our connective tissue than men, .......

Some materials I read is that the Female hip angle results in more knee stress and as a result ACL injuries for women.

 

[dvcochran]

Some materials I read is that the Female hip angle results in more knee stress and as a result ACL injuries for women.

I have read similar articles. More specifically in regards to flexibility but it supports the same theories. The articles make a big deal about how the length of the bone from the ball (ball & socket) to the large nodule that transitions to the Femur (hip bone I think?) has a lot to do with flexibility in either sex. It states women in general have a slightly different angle at the ball & socket relative to a vertical (standing) leg. This contributes to things like birthing ease, stretching/splits ease, and angular loading on the knees and feet leading to increased ACL tears. To me this jives with what @Buka and others have said. But I am sure as heck no doctor.

 

[Acronym]

Yeah, I read an article a while back about how female athletes are more likely than male athletes to get sports injuries like ACL tears and dislocations. Apparently it's because we have more laxity in our connective tissue than men, which is needed in order to make childbirth possible, and means that women can be more flexible on average, but.... that's exactly the downside.

Untrained women are on average more flexible than men when it comes to the hips. There is no dispute on this, and it is for the child bearing reasons.
Women also have greater body fat on their legs than men but they don't kick as hard regardless.

The reason for this is that technique can only account for power so much. There is a strength factor involved in the contraction and extraction phase.

It is believed that if men had the fat percentages of female legs, they would kick harder than they do with their male legs, assuming all else is equal.

 

[Acronym]

and means that women can be more flexible on average, but.... that's exactly the downside.

No that's not what it means, at least not in the context of martial arts. It only refers to baseline levels, which are irrelevant long-term once you start training.

 

[Acronym]

One of the things that I tend to see with naturally flexible people is that they just flick their leg out there without thrusting their hip, and when you try and explain it they don't get it. I think they have this spoiled effect from superior flexibility that made them less attentive to proper hip thrusts.

So the less flexible person who had to thrust the hips since he/she started out, has an advantage in that he/she doesn't get anything for free. And this bodymechanic stays with him once the hips do loosen up. and as a result, he kicks harder

 

[Earl Weiss]

Women also have greater body fat on their legs than men but they don't kick as hard regardless.
.

IMO this is more a function of women generally having less mass than men as opposed to than anything else. I have seen small women kick harder than a large percentage of men, and some large women with astonishing power.

 

[Acronym]

IMO this is more a function of women generally having less mass than men as opposed to than anything else. I have seen small women kick harder than a large percentage of men, and some large women with astonishing power.

You can compare a male and female of the same weight, or even the female being bigger and she would still struggle to come close. It has to do with tensing and penetration.

And you can't use the speed argument since strength and fast twitch muscle excertion go hand in hand. How strong you are is in large part a function of how fast you can fast twitch. The other half is the size of the muscles. Which is is why a small person can be brutally strong if he can fast twitch very fast and a big person can be relatively weak because he cant tense very well.

 

[Acronym]

Here is a female arm wrestling world champion using her entire body against a unskilled male who only uses his arm for the most part.

She is in a war to get him down. And says afterwards that he would win every single time if he only used his body properly.

That's the discrepencies we are talking about

 

[Earl Weiss]

You can compare a male and female of the same weight, or even the female being bigger and she would still struggle to come close. It has to do with tensing and penetration.

.

Suffice it to say my experience with women ( does not support your opinion.