Ouch! Father castrates daughter's boyfriend

[Tanaka]

Obviously I also presented this as an extreme disparity for a reason..
at what age do you think that people have the ability to consent to this?
Or do you want to see some other reasoning brought in to evaluate whether someone is able to consent?

I obviously have a different outlook, because in Germany it is apparantly ok to have sex with consenting 14 year olds... just crazy...but whatever criteria you are goin gto come up with I will be willing to bet there is some extreme example of someone who is extremely young but would still meet your ideas... and make it sick and twisted..

I don't agree with 17year old dating a 50year old either.

BUT... but I also don't agree with treating 17year old cases like 6year old cases.
If this was sexual abuse to a 6year old... I would probably feel the same way as you do.

At 17... Most of them are sexually educated, holding a job, and etc.
Different ballgame.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I don't agree with 17year old dating a 50year old either.

BUT... but I also don't agree with treating 17year old cases like 6year old cases.
If this was sexual abuse to a 6year old... I would probably feel the same way as you do.

At 17... Most of them are sexually educated, holding a job, and etc.
Different ballgame.

+1.

I am not saying it isn't wrong. I think it IS wrong.
But I also think that it is different from sex with a 6 year old, don't you think?

And we also don't know how old she was exactly. If she was 17 and 364 days you would insist on him being a paedophile, and if the sex had happened the day after, all would be fine and dandy? I think not. 6 != 17 and they should not be treated the same.

Btw, over here, consent laws are based on the age difference up to 18 years. So 18 and 16 would be fine. And 16 and 14 would be fine. And I expect this is the case in Germany too. So while 14 can be a consenting age in some situations, with a 60 year old partner it would still be rape of a minor.

The reason we have those laws is that if 2 underage kids have sex, neither of them deserves to be branded a paedophile for life. That is a matter between them and their parents, not the criminal system

 

[oaktree]

Pedophile:
A pedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to child who have not reached puberty.

Ephrbophilia:
Ephebophilia is the sexual preference of adults for mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19.

I think the correct terms should be used because one can not consent to sex and the other can and the range for Ephrbophilia can be in the legal range.

Germany has age of consent at 14 and maybe he did not have sex with her for what ever reason.

If it is within the laws,legal and consentual then different strokes for different folks.

I can understand the father's rage however, you can not take the law into your hands because you disagree with a legal consentual agreement.

 

[Tez3]

well see you and Tez, and I are talking about two different things...

14 the age of consent? Seems shady to me, but tis not my country and I dont have to go there.. that changes the dynamics of the discussion by alot, but I still have never seen or heard of more then a handful of teenagers, even at 18 or 19, that are mature enough to make true life decisions without guidance.
In America, where I chose to live, 17 would make this guy a pedofile. Period.
Sure there are teens that are wise beyond their years, and visa versa.
The fact remains that the age limit is placed to protect the vast majority of "kids" who simply do not have the life experience, maturity, and wisdom to make good decisions on these kinds of things yet.
I think a near 60 year old sticking it to a 17 year old is a disgusting peice of filth who deserves to be eliminated from our society.
Germany and anyone else can think and do what they want, I dont have to live, and I dont have to send my kids there to be targetted by predators like this old dude.
Did he get a harsh and illegal punishment? Of course, like I said before I do not feel any pity for him in the least. I find it morally disgusting that he was dating, or having sex, or doing anything with a 17 year old. I could care less what anyone wants to say to justify it by using extreme cases of some vastly out of place wise old kid having the mental faculties to deal with the situation or abuse the situation. You might chose to protect the criminal intent in the old guy, but I choose to protect the innocence of youth

German laws on 'age of consent'
There are effectively three AOC laws in Germany:

1) Any sexual act with a person below the age of 14 is strictly prohibited (Sexual
abuse of children, Art. 176, 176a, 176b). The German police actively cooperate with
foreign police forces to seek out German nationals who have (allegedly) been sexually
involved with children abroad. However, there is a statute of limitations and a
prosecution must be started before the young 'victim' reaches their 28th birthday.

2) Where sex occurs between an adult (over 18 or 21) and young persons between
14 and 16, prosecution depends on the following circumstances (Sexual abuse of
young persons Art.182):

For a person over 18 years (young adult and adult) sex with young persons between
14 and 16 is forbidden if accompanied by money or gifts of value, or if the adult takes
advantage of the distressed situation of the young person (eg. homelessness) in order
to procure sex. (An exception *may* be granted if the young person is a prostitute
(see below)).

In addition to this, it is forbidden for a person over 21 years (adult) to perform any
sexual act with a person under 16, if the young person is not capable of sexual
self-determination; (This determination can only be made after the 'victim' has been
given a psychological examination). This last regulation is pursued only on complaint of
the victim's parents or foster-parents, except for cases of public interest.

In all cases of Art. 182, prosecution must be started within 5 years of the commission
of the (alleged) offence.

It follows that for an adult it is *safer* to assume that the AOC for all non-dependent
relationships is 16 (and not 14), and this applies to both homo- and hetero-sexual acts.

3) The legal age of consent for dependent relationships, (e.g., teacher/student etc) is
18 (Sexual abuse of dependants Art. 174).

Incest (Art. 173) and sexual coercion/rape (Art. 177) are completely forbidden.




Pornography

Under German law, pornographic images are not illegal if the act depicted is not
*obviously* of itself criminal. But there are two exceptions:

The production, distribution and possession of photographs or videos of a child or
children (i.e., persons under 14 years of age) are illegal, if the children are depicted in
a pornographic way. Pornography is the reduction of a person to his or her sexuality.
Therefore obscene depictions of a child are illegal, even if they do not depict an illegal
act. Depictions of a nude child are not considered pornographic. However,
magazines like "Jung und Frei" or "Sonnenfreunde" and nudist videos showing
mainly naked children can no longer be sold openly (e.g., in bookshops, newspaper
stalls etc.) due to a new interpretation of child-protection regulations. The production
and possession of these nudist magazines and films is still legal.

The second exception is for zoophile pornography (ie beastiality). It is illegal to
produce and distribute, but not to possess such material.

Giving access and showing pornography to persons under 18 is forbidden. It is, for
instance, legal for a man or woman to have consensual sex with a 16-year-old, and to
video or film this activity, but it is not legal to show this film to the young person
concerned or to any other person under 18.

The Internet is under increasing police surveillance and computer owners who have
been tracked uploading (i.e., distributing) or downloading (i.e., possessing) forbidden
pornography, have been raided throughout the country.




Prostitution

There are extra regulations for prostitution (Art. 180-181a). For instance there are
limits on the places where prostitution can be undertaken. For a person between 14
and 18 (the legal definition of a 'young person') prostitution it is not an illegal activity.
But children under 14 and sometimes young persons just above this age will be taken
into care, if they are caught engaging in prostitution. It is illegal to incite a young person
into prostitution. It is illegal for an adult (over 18), to have sex for money with a
14-16-year-old prostitute, but there is a regulation that *may* exempt the adult from
punishment in this case (e.g., when the adult had been blackmailed by the prostitute).




Source: http://www.interpol.int/Public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws


"I think a near 60 year old sticking it to a 17 year old is a disgusting peice of filth who deserves to be eliminated from our society."

This is a crude and offensive phrase, it may be fine to use this with your male buddies but it's not a phrase for a decent place like this.

If you think vigilantism and 'rough justice ' is fine you have little respect for the law and are actually no different from than either the father or the boyfriend in having a very dodgy moral compass.

 

[Tez3]

Obviously I also presented this as an extreme disparity for a reason..
at what age do you think that people have the ability to consent to this?
Or do you want to see some other reasoning brought in to evaluate whether someone is able to consent?

I obviously have a different outlook, because in Germany it is apparantly ok to have sex with consenting 14 year olds... just crazy...but whatever criteria you are goin gto come up with I will be willing to bet there is some extreme example of someone who is extremely young but would still meet your ideas... and make it sick and twisted..

Actually having sex with a fourteen year old is restricted to partners of under sixteen. It's to stop what happens in your country when young people have sex, as they will despite the best efforts of adults to stop them or perhaps because of efforts to stop them. What happens is that two 14-15 years olds have sex and the male is done for rape and ends up with a criminal record. The German laws are incredibly complicated when it comes to the age of consent so have a look at them before blowing your moral trumpet over us. I believe in your country, I was looking it up, the legal age for marriage albeit with parental consent is as low as 13 in some states, in many others it's 14 and 15 so don't go preaching to us.

 

[Tez3]

12 is the lowest age of consent is Europe and that's in the bastion of Christianity the Vatican City.

 

[bluewaveschool]

two underage kids have sex, either brand them both or neither. it's always the males fault, the male always takes the fall. the girls are just as guilty, punish them too.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

12 is the lowest age of consent is Europe and that's in the bastion of Christianity the Vatican City.

WOW thats insane..Whatver you want to do over there just keep it away from me.. I cant deal with that nonsense.
and your comment about a dodgy moral character, I could give a crap what you think, I think you are more interested in being politically correct, and hoping that the old pervert was on the up and up and that possibly the young girl could be shady that I have no interest in sharing anything in common with you.
I gladly stand divided from you and yours if that if standard behavior that is fine and dandy where you come from... have it, and keep it.
I stand by my comments. I could care less what anyone thinks, There is absolutely something perverse about a near 60 year old having a relationship like this with a 17 year old.
Like I said you can believe to the contrary, and have at it. I dont care to change your mind, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change my mind on it. Its sick, its disgusting, and its morally wrong in my opinion.
I also didnt blow any damn moral trumpet so before you go taunting me with maintaining decorum on another thread why dont you stop being a damn hypocrite and doing the same thing on this thread.
Mentor or not, you absolutely have done the same thing you tried giving me crap about on another thread.
My opinion is and always will be that its sick and perverse for this to happen. Take as you will. But get off my tail when you are doing the same thing.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

besides all the nonsense..
I find it humorous how you comment on the vatican and stick the barb in about the "bastion of Christianity" Like that will matter to me one bit... my arguments have nothing to do about any religion, never have and never will.

also I think its ridiculous to allow any minor to marry regardless of whether it is in the United States or not. Marriage is becoming an absoute failure. My thoughts on marriage is it should be way harder to get married for all people anyways... but that is a topic for another thread.

I just do not believe that anyone(the vast majority..there are always exceptions to any rule... but I would rather error in the side of safety on this one) that young can be mentally proficient to make competant decisions about sex, birth control, children, marriage... hell most of them can barely make decision on operating a motor vehicle without killing themselves.
I blame our society for that, parents for the majority of the blame, but it has become more and more ok to coddle our kids until they are in their 20s. Schools dont teach practical skills, and it seems like every religion wants to make any education for sex ed, and kids having kids a nogo... I see kids given more and more freedom to make big life choices all the time, and more and more kids makign dumb or bad life choices...
I have seen statistics of rapidly rising teen birth rates, single mother births have topped births to couples and married couples in some states, and abandoned children are becoming the norm and not just a shocking story... DFS in Los Angelos has more of their kids killed every year then should be tolerable for the nation, and child pornography, teachers molesting students, adults molesting kids under 17 seems to be a daily newstory.
AS a parent to a 4 and 2 year old I am extremely concious to the facts and the problems.
As a teacher to hundreds of kids in a martial arts program I am well aware the statistics are horrible that some of those kids are going to be abused, have been abused, and are being abused at the present time... which is horrifying.
a 60 year old man dating a 17 year old girl sets off warning bells to me.
I wont apologize for that.
I wont accept it.

 

[Sukerkin]

a 60 year old man dating a 17 year old girl sets off warning bells to me.
I wont apologize for that.
I wont accept it.

That bit we all agree on.

Now, with Mentor hat set in place, this thread is in the General Talk area of the site, not the Study, where some extra leeway is permitted when it comes to 'heat'. So if posters could kindly lower the temperature a little bit that will be most welcome.

 

[Tez3]

WOW thats insane..Whatver you want to do over there just keep it away from me.. I cant deal with that nonsense.
and your comment about a dodgy moral character, I could give a crap what you think, I think you are more interested in being politically correct, and hoping that the old pervert was on the up and up and that possibly the young girl could be shady that I have no interest in sharing anything in common with you.
I gladly stand divided from you and yours if that if standard behavior that is fine and dandy where you come from... have it, and keep it.
I stand by my comments. I could care less what anyone thinks, There is absolutely something perverse about a near 60 year old having a relationship like this with a 17 year old.
Like I said you can believe to the contrary, and have at it. I dont care to change your mind, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change my mind on it. Its sick, its disgusting, and its morally wrong in my opinion.
I also didnt blow any damn moral trumpet so before you go taunting me with maintaining decorum on another thread why dont you stop being a damn hypocrite and doing the same thing on this thread.
Mentor or not, you absolutely have done the same thing you tried giving me crap about on another thread.
My opinion is and always will be that its sick and perverse for this to happen. Take as you will. But get off my tail when you are doing the same thing.

You do seem a tad upset dear boy, think it would do your blood pressure good if you calmed down a little.

Firstly, it doesn't matter what any of us think in the end, it's being dealt with by the German authorities.
My point is and I don't think it's being political correct at all, is that you cannot go around handing out what you think is justice to people you think have done you a wrong.

No one here said it was right that a very much older man was with a 17 year old girl, but it is a fact that as she was over the age of consent it was something that had to be considered their own business.

I'm not 'hoping' anything in this case at all, in my experience however there is two sides to every story. You can't assume she is an innocent victim and he the dirty old lecher, she may be taking him for a fortune and now he's lost his crown jewels as well! We simply don't know, I posted this thread because of the sheer 'ouchness' of the father's action rather than set up a debate on dubious morality.

What you will never get to me to change my mind on is that vigilantism is wrong and it's not for people to seek their own brand of justice. How would you feel if it happened to you because a female you were with had a father who felt aggrieved you were going out with her for any reason, doesn't have to be age related, it could be your skin was the wrong colour, your religion incorrect etc etc. Once you let someone get away with castrating a man because he disagreed with him going out with his daughter it's the thin end of the wedge. it's a precedent. There are people who feel it's immoral that people of different races go out together, should we allow castration then? Of course not, but that's where it would lead.

If this were an Asian father and daughter, it would be considered a matter of 'honour' if the father didn't approve of the man but it would rarely be a matter of age as many 17 year old years are married off to much older men, often with the same age difference as here. I believe in America there are men who marry multiple young wives, and as I pointed out the marriagable age is as low as 13, 14 and 15 in some states in America with parental consent, so what parent lets their 13 year old get married? It's not a case of 'over here' we are morally bankrupt and in America it's perfect as you imply, there are problems all around.

Make as many personal attacks on me as you wish, it really only serves to be amusing but if you chose to make personal attacks on me while getting failing to understand what I'm saying that's just sad.

As Sukerkin said, no one here said that a 17 year old with a 57 year old was the ideal relationship, far from it but what you can't do is take the law into your own hands.