Other than my conclusions, what other conclusions are possible without contradicting my references?

Discussion in 'Korean Martial Arts - General' started by Steven Lee, Jan 31, 2019.

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  1. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    Other than my conclusions, what other conclusions are possible without contradicting my references?

    -Oyama taught a Korean hand strike to Karate cause he saw Korean hand strikes by being a Korean. He taught a better hand strike to Karate for Tameshiwari/Breaking purpose.

    The referenced facts are:
    1. Karate didn't have the hand strike that rotates shoulder and stacks speed & power without implosion & explosion. Kamesuke Higashioona 1933 Hand Breaking without shoulder-rotation.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._1933_Hand_Breaking_without_shoulder-push.jpg

    2. Karate had it after Mas Oyama.
    3. Korean always has had that hand strike, including before Mas Oyama.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtgeqsmWwAE9by-.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/jaTY5Zr.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/yJFsJWN.png

    My conclusion is: Oyama taught a Korean hand strike to Karate.

    -Breaking/Tameshiawri was well known in Japan by Korean Kiaijutsu/Kihapsul; Korean always has had Breaking.

    The referenced facts are:
    1. Breaking/Tameshiawri was well known in Japan by Korean Kiaijutsu/Kihapsul.
    Mas Oyama in America, by Graham Noble

    2. Korean always has had powerful Breaking including Hand Breaking. I referenced many Korean Breaking events from history in any era. (400 years ago, 100 years ago.)
    https://i.imgur.com/UqPLaLW.png
    https://i.imgur.com/GqgCXfa.png
    https://i.imgur.com/yJFsJWN.png
    https://i.imgur.com/d3vM6SR.png

    The conclusion is:
    Karate started Breaking/Tameshiwari as a modern practice of Karate by Mas Oyama. This was done by either copying Kiaijutsu/Kihapsul or by copying Iron Palm's Breaking culture. (I suppose Karate copying Iron Palm is also possible although Kihapsul/Kiaijutsu was well known in Japan including 1940's Judo player Masato Tamura doing Breaking under the name Kiaijutsu, not Karate.)

    What other conclusions are possible in these situations?

    Also, it's Ad Hominem fallacy to attack my motive, motivation, credibility, agenda rather than attacking the substance of my argument itself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  2. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    The obvious conclusion, as has been pointed out repeatedly, is that you're wrong. You've deluded yourself into believing a bunch of nonsense, most likely because of your racism and self-loathing.

    You've also refused to answer straightforward questions. Since you want to be considered an authority on Korean Martial Arts history, you'll need to answer some questions.
    What training do you have in history? What training do you have in research methodology? What training do you have in logic? What training do you have in any Korean martial art? Under whom? To what rank?
     
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  3. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    Just because you whine "self-loathing" doesn't mean **** in the real world, especially to me. Also, just because you claim nonsense to legitimate facts doesn't make them so.

    I'm not an athlete. I already said this. I'm a nerd, amateur sports historian. Being trained in sports and being trained in sports history are two different things. It doesn't matter how much you are trained in sports; you don't know anything about its history by training sports.
     
  4. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    And no matter how many times you repeat the same racist, delusional nonsense, it won't become fact.

    I notice you didn't answer the questions. I suspect other people also noticed that you didn't answer the questions.
    What impact do you think that has on your credibility?
     
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  5. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    You do realize posting pretty much the same thing over and over again is not going to change the outcome..... it just gets you one step closer to crossing that MT rule not to be broken line
     
  6. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    I only need to connect to objective people & historians. I don't need the rest of the people telling themselves whatever nonsense.

    I don't have any background. I said I'm not an athlete. No training. I also said that my sources & references have authority in history. I also said people who trained in sports have no authority in sports history.
     
  7. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    You also said Koreans come form Scandinavia and Mesopotamia and that Korean wrestling existed before Chinese wrestling and the country of Korea
     
  8. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    My primary topic focus is Breaking. That's the topic I'm focusing on. I also covered many topics including Taekkyeon-Yetbub VS Taekkyeon, Subak's real rules & motions, Taekwondo originating from 9 gyms in 1960's, etc.
     
  9. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    Well, I'm saying the same thing because it is correct and I am spreading the truth. What other conclusions are possible from those referenced facts?
     
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    But you are neither objective nor a historian.

    So stop telling yourself nonsense. Move past the racism and face reality.

    So you're not a martial artist. You're not a historian. You're not a researcher. You're not a logician.

    You basically just puke up a lot of nonsense and then think people should believe you.

    Pardon me while I join others in laughing.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Without getting into value of the posts, I will just point out that assertions and references aren't the same thing. What I see in your post are insubstantiated assertions. Actual references to reliable sources would help.
     
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  12. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, no, you're spouting a bunch of nonsense that you've deluded yourself into believing is true.
     
  13. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    I showed referenced facts. I showed my conclusions. If there cannot be any other possible conclusions, my conclusions are the facts. As for the referenced facts, they are the facts by the authority & authenticity of the sources. If both my referenced facts & my conclusions are true, then I'm spreading the truth. I don't need to convince anyone other than objective people & historians.
     
  14. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    I showed references already. I didn't feel the need to repeat my references, but I edited the thread anyway. They now have links.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  15. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    So, @Steven Lee, do you have any education or training at all, that might salvage some shred of credibility? Anything? Bueller?

    Because what you've posted doesn't make it seem that you do.
     
  16. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    I think you entire approach and attitude would put off objective people and historians.....
     
  17. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Well remember it is rather early in the morning...tomorrow... in Korea ;)
     
  18. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    When your approach is biased, your sources sketchy (to say the least) and your conclusions ludicrous, do you really think people who are objective and/or historians are going to take them seriously?
     
  19. Steven Lee

    Steven Lee Blue Belt

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    My references are reputable & authoritative. My conclusions follow from the references. If you cannot show what other conclusions are possible from those references, then those conclusions are true.

    Well, yeah. Objective people without agenda, bias, goals would agree with my conclusions and my references cause my sources are reputable. For the same reason, historians should agree me. They should at least agree with the referenced facts cause they are reputable. On top of it, my conclusions follow from the references. If you claim some other conclusions are possible, talk.
     
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  20. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really. They're not. And you're not.

    And you didn't answer the question. Again.
     
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