Organization

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by TKDGMY, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. TKDGMY

    TKDGMY White Belt

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    Just a quick question. If you belong to an organization are you responsible for the other instructors in that organization. For instance if you know one/or more of the instructors in the organization is doing something imoral yet choose to ignore it are you part of the problem or should you be seeking out another organization?
     
  2. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    TKDGMY let me say hello and welcome to the site.

    As far as your question lets start with this do you belong to an Organization and if so which one? Are you an instructor in that organization? If so I would believe it would be in the best interest of your org. for everybody to try and do the right thing.
     
  3. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    well, is it immoral or illegal?

    The organizational blanket only reaches so far. In the end everybody is responsible for his/her own actions.
     
  4. exile

    exile To him unconquered.

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    True.

    Things can get murky, depending on circumstances. But I don't think belonging to the same organization, or not, is what makes the difference.

    If as a small business owner you belong to the Chamber of Commerce of your town, and you happen to find out that one of your fellow CC members is cheating their customers, that's one thing. If you belong to the PTA and you find out that a fellow parent is violently abusive to his kids, that's something else. And in neither case does membership in the relevant organization seem to me to affect the moral issue&#8212;do you get involved, and if so, how?&#8212;at all.

    But in the absence of any concrete details in the OP, it's hard to know just what's at stake here.... :idunno:
     
  5. TKDGMY

    TKDGMY White Belt

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    Well its a long story but basically I live in a small midwest city and train with a great instructor. However we had a little disagreement a couple months ago and I was "tempted" to look elswere. When we talked he was understanding, he has been training for 30 years and has been through this before. Basically he told me to look at the other organizations in the area/state and if I found one better than his I should change. He gave me some basic information on the main one and told me who to talk to and what to check on and then left it to me. I was astounded at who and what is in that organization once I started getting into it. They have high ranking people who have extensive criminal history (I have a friend thats a cop so he did a little digging for me.) They have people who have been arrested for child abuse, wife abuse, drugs, steroids, you name it. Some of the people seem ligit but I just cant see how they can justifiy being in an organization that supports the other elements.
     
  6. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    What organization is it? I mean share my good man, we all know people like that and just for the record anybody that has child abuse on there record should not be allow to teach plan and simple.
     
  7. IcemanSK

    IcemanSK El Conquistador nim!

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    So, it sounds like you have your answer for yourself. Since you're not saying it like, "well it happened in the past, but they're better now." But rather "wow, that's a lot of heavy stuff they've been charged with," I think you have your answer. Probably not a group of folks you'd wanna hang out with.
     
  8. exile

    exile To him unconquered.

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    Agreed.

    You can't keep people from forming any kind of association they want to, pretty much. But as Ice says, just looking at 'em, it's pretty clear you want to steer clear of them. There's not much else you can do, eh?
     
  9. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Senior Master

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    Arrested or convicted? Big difference.

    Seen many arrested for wife abuse stemming from marital discord even when the wife did not want an arrest made. Since OJ, I have seen police and Prosecuters figuring they would make the arrest and prosecute just in case there was something there to avoid flack if they didn't do it and something happened later.

    Been in divorce court where many wives accused Husbands of child abuse to gain the upper hand in divorce and custody matters. Pretty sad.

    With regards to drugs and Steroids, it's a tougher call perhaps even if thre was a conviction. Was the person a teenager when arrested and now it's 30 years later with no intervening issues, or was it recent. Bottom line, it's a judgement call, but I wouldn't base it on a single arrest years ago with no conviction. Also curious as to whether tis was the only other org. out there.
     
  10. Miles

    Miles Senior Master

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    Sounds like you already have a great relationship with your instructor who has the integrity (and confidence) to allow and encourage you to look elsewhere. You looked and didn't like what you found.
     
  11. TKDGMY

    TKDGMY White Belt

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    Well, I have a long list but I will only list the things I can verify. Organization is the IBBF. Run by a Korean 9th Dan Black Belt.

    Ranks,
    Black Belts in both Hapkido and Kumdo. Received 1st Degrees in both disiplines after weekend seminaurs. To get their black belt in Hapkido they had to do 12 techniques. Weekend seminar in Kumdo was $1500 each... dont know about the Hapkido but I assume it was the same.

    In their history they have three horrible instances that I could find:
    #1. Instructor sent to jail for 12 years for molesting boys that were in his classes. He would get them drunk and then take advantage of them.
    #2. Instructor arrested had 62 videos of him having sex with underage students. Recieved a slap on the wrist and is still teaching in another town. He also has a counseling certificate that was never taken. Go figure that one?
    #3. Instructor arrested for "cult" activiites. A nationaly known cult deprogramer expert was brought in to help. The same guy was later sent to jail for killing a girl in a hit and run.

    They have about 7 "7th Dans". The worst one:
    Extensive criminal history
    Banned from old USTU competition for 2 years: steriods
    One of his instructors just left him, the reason.... charged him over $10,000 for his 4th Dan test!
    Several people told me he has a history of wife abuse but couldnt verify it as if the above wasnt bad enough.

    Thats just a few of the things I found. The more I started searching the worse it got. If nothing else it made me appricate were I am (I think thats why my instructor sent me on this search in the first place)! Still cant figure out why anyone would want to belong to such an organization, but I think they keep it all hidden as much as possible.
    Well heading for break.... I have a long list of other things but some I couldnt verify on this organization. Seems they have kept things quit with their student population but if I searched out instructors who left them for one reason or another they were more than willing to give me some info. Of course most of that was hard to verify.
     
  12. exile

    exile To him unconquered.

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    Yipes.

    Your instincts on this are sound. It sounds like there's a real cesspool here. This kind of trouble, you really don't need.
     
  13. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Makes Cobra Kai look like the church choir....
     
  14. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Personally I would look elsewhere for my training!
     
  15. searcher

    searcher Senior Master

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    Mkae sure I know this if I move to your town. I might have to consider teaching classes armed.
     
  16. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    Man that is one dojo that needs to be closed down.
     
  17. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

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  18. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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  19. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

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    The International Black Belt Federation, or IBBF, is an organization of Tae Kwon Do Master Instructors, Black Belts, and students with roots to Great Grand Master Moo Yong Yun (Chang Moo Kwan certified 10th degree black belt) of Fargo, ND. With schools throughout North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Alaska, Florida, Washington, Wisconsin, and Iowa, the IBBF is proud to be the 3rd largest WTF certified organization in the U.S.A.! The IBBF sanctions monthly tournaments, hosts an annual camp for black belt training, and is able to bring in some of the world's most talented martial artists for special training seminars.

    We are a very close-knit community of people, all working for the betterment of Tae Kwon Do as shown by our Great Grand Master Instructor, Moo Yung Yun.
     
  20. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

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    The relevance is just that there is a thread praising the group and the teacher as well. I have no connection. It just jumped out at me that I read something before and after looking felt it was fair to remind the board of both sides of the group.

    Again, I have no connection either way, just saying...


    Dave O.
     

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