Open vs. Closed Hand

[cfr]

I'm assuming slap means with the palm, not fingers, right?

 

[tshadowchaser]

could be either i have seen 1 inch patio blocks broke by being slapped with the fingers

 

[MJS]

1; Should the fingers be bent to redure the risk of hyper-extending the wrist?

I practice both ways. IMO, its more of a personal preference as to what you feel more comfortable with.

2; Is is difficult to learn to generate the same amount of poweropen handed as closed?

No. The power should be coming from the same place as it comes from with a closed hand..the hips and proper body mechanics.

3; Most people mentioned the palm strike in this thread. I see no reason why a palm stirke couldn't be used as a hook, do you?

Yes, it can be used in a hooking motion.

4; Has anyone successfully used open hand techs for uppercuts? It seens awkward to me, but that could be due to my inexperience.

It is possible to use more of an upward angle and hit under the chin

Mike

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm assuming slap means with the palm, not fingers, right?

Yes

Cup for the ears.

Flat or normal for the side of the face with a little draw upon contact.

My preferences as there are multiple ways to attack this problem.

 

[Explorer]

It really depends on what I'm hitting. If it's soft tissue or ribs, I use a fist. If it's the ear, an open hand. If I'm being choked from behind I try to hit them with my teeth.

 

[jacktnicol]

I do like to use fists. But practicaly for most the open hand is better because their is less risk of personal injury and open hand techniques are quicker because when you make a fist their is more muscular tension causing resitance.

Jack

 

[lll000000lll]

When it comes to striking, what is your tool of choice? For me, I prefer an open hand strike such as a palm heel, a hammerfist or an elbow over hitting with my closed fist. IMO, you're going to run less of a chance of getting a hand injury with an open handed strike. Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not saying that a closed fist is a bad idea, just taking into consideration that it may not always be the best choice.

Thoughts?

If a punch is delivered properly then there is really no chance of hurting it.

when punching, the index and middle Knuckles should be the contact point touching the Target.

most hand injuries happen when a sloppy punch is thrown, like a wide hook or even if it is tight but the fist is not in the correct position.

for a hook the wrist, elbow and should should all be even at the same height as the shoulders. the fist position should look like you are holding a coffee mug, or glass of your favorite beer, so the back of your fist is facing the opponent and your fingers are facing your body.

and always remember to connect with your index and middle-finger knuckles and the rotation from the hips and shoulders should help maximize power to your fist.

for Jabs and crosses the form is different

 

[lll000000lll]

I do like to use fists. But practicaly for most the open hand is better because their is less risk of personal injury and open hand techniques are quicker because when you make a fist their is more muscular tension causing resitance.

Jack

what i learned is that you dont actually make a fist untill the moment of impact followed by a snap back into guard.

 

[karateka]

for some people open hand strıkes work better but these need more practıce and traınıng

ın shotokan a technıque called 'taesho' ıs very effıcıent but reqıres much practıce. fınger strıkes are also very good for pressure poınt work but agaın need much more practıce.

wıth traınıng of open hand ıt can be as or even more effectıve than closed fıst. ıt all depends on power and presısıon

 

[Syn]

For me head, and back (I don't see why I'd do much striking there)=palm
front body=fist

Though in a fight those may mix up a bit in the confusion.

 

[MJS]

If a punch is delivered properly then there is really no chance of hurting it.

Unless of course, we end up hitting something harder.

when punching, the index and middle Knuckles should be the contact point touching the Target.

most hand injuries happen when a sloppy punch is thrown, like a wide hook or even if it is tight but the fist is not in the correct position.

for a hook the wrist, elbow and should should all be even at the same height as the shoulders. the fist position should look like you are holding a coffee mug, or glass of your favorite beer, so the back of your fist is facing the opponent and your fingers are facing your body.

and always remember to connect with your index and middle-finger knuckles and the rotation from the hips and shoulders should help maximize power to your fist.

for Jabs and crosses the form is different

Good points. Hand position is very important, although in the heat of the situation, there is a chance we could get sloppy. If I recall correctly, didn't Mike Tyson break his hand outside of the ring? And he is a pro boxer.

Mike

 

[lll000000lll]

Unless of course, we end up hitting something harder.



Good points. Hand position is very important, although in the heat of the situation, there is a chance we could get sloppy. If I recall correctly, didn't Mike Tyson break his hand outside of the ring? And he is a pro boxer.

Mike

boxing ability aside, Mike Tyson is one crazy *******.
so it doesnt suprise me he broke his hand.

i heard that he attacked two autograph seekers in a hotel lobby.

Mike T fans- "hey your mike tyson...can we have an autograph???"

Mike Tyson- GRRRR me want EAR!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kenpodoc]

If a punch is delivered properly then there is really no chance of hurting it.

1. Even gloved and wrapped boxers frequently break hands.
2. In the heat of battle most of us have at least some failure of form even if we are perfect in practice.
3. I still need some proof of a statement like this but am unsure of how to set up the experiment since by the logic of the quoted statement any fracture must be caused by improper delivery.

I still like Sean Kelley's statement "Slap the Head, Punch the body and kick the legs."

Jeff

 

[matt.m]

I am all about ridge hands.

 

[Shotochem]

With proper conditioning there is a lot less risk while striking with a closed fist than without.

I started as a Shotokan guy and we did mostly closed fist but the longer I have trained the more I use open hand strikes and blocks. This was even before I switched to Kempo.

Perhaps the movement to open hand is just a natural progression in MA.

 

[MJS]

With proper conditioning there is a lot less risk while striking with a closed fist than without.

True, but how many people are really going to take the time necessary to put into this conditioning? I'm sure their are some that do do it, but I'd wager that number isn't that large.

Mike

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I do quite a bit of conditioning but not as much as some recomend. I still what my hands intact.

 

[Guardian]

When it comes to striking, what is your tool of choice? For me, I prefer an open hand strike such as a palm heel, a hammerfist or an elbow over hitting with my closed fist. IMO, you're going to run less of a chance of getting a hand injury with an open handed strike. Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not saying that a closed fist is a bad idea, just taking into consideration that it may not always be the best choice.

Thoughts?

Closed hand perferably being cautious of the exact point of impact (which portion of the hand to strike with). I do as you mentioned know that possibility of an injury rising dramitically using a closed hand, but the power of the closed hand negates that portion for me personally.

 

[exile]

I'm with the open-hand advocates here. Having broken my hand in a fist-strike to a thick stack of pine boards a while back, I may be cautious to excess, but if you put palm-heel and knifehand strikes together, that does most of the work that a punch should be doing, eh? And of what's left, a hammerfist strike is probably safer than a straight punch to the same target, though of course the body orientation would be different in the two cases. Bring in the proper use of forearms for frontal attacks to the throat (recorded in kata as `rising blocks') and elbow strikes to the face—all of 'em way less likely to lead to you fracturing anything as a result—and the role of fist strikes definitely seems to recede to the margins...

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm with the open-hand advocates here. Having broken my hand in a fist-strike to a thick stack of pine boards a while back, I may be cautious to excess, but if you put palm-heel and knifehand strikes together, that does most of the work that a punch should be doing, eh? And of what's left, a hammerfist strike is probably safer than a straight punch to the same target, though of course the body orientation would be different in the two cases. Bring in the proper use of forearms for frontal attacks to the throat (recorded in kata as `rising blocks') and elbow strikes to the face—all of 'em way less likely to lead to you fracturing anything as a result—and the role of fist strikes definitely seems to recede to the margins...

exile,

The hammer fist and palm heel are gross motor skills and are good simple strikes. I agree that in theory one could generate a perfect reverse punch with the proper hip and weight placement and knuckle placement and rotation of hand could generate the most amount of energy, but looking at stress and reacting to people in real time, keeping it simple for basics is good im my opinion. When I do punch most of the time I do not rotate the hand over, as I find it is not want I do in a real fight.

I also like them as it is part of your legal self defense. If a witness sees your open hand it is a defensive move, push them away - Palm heel - or to defensivly strike them - hammer fist - and this goes a long way with the police and the DA's and possible even the judge, although I was lucky and did not have to deal with a judge for myself.

If you say you purposefully striked the person with this type of strike and a witness can confirm it then your strike could be determined to be premeditated. Of course talk to a lawyer for actual legal advice. Before and after any altercation.

Just my thoughts.