on pukulan....

[krys]

Hormat

I just have a question on the so called Pukulan
styles.

I heard some peoples in the West say that there exists some Pukulan silat styles mostly based on heavy strikes to the limbs or striking into the coming attack....

Back in Asia the two GM I train(ed) with explained me that Pukulan just means the way to punch...

So I wonder, are the Pukulan silat styles just made up by some foreigners? Is Pukulan another martial art, different from Silat?

I do not mean any disrespect,

Salamat.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by krys
Hormat

I just have a question on the so called Pukulan
styles.

I heard some peoples in the West say that there exists some Pukulan silat styles mostly based on heavy strikes to the limbs or striking into the coming attack....

Back in Asia the two GM I train(ed) with explained me that Pukulan just means the way to punch...

So I wonder, are the Pukulan silat styles just made up by some foreigners? Is Pukulan another martial art, different from Silat?

I do not mean any disrespect,

Salamat.

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

The way that I've heard it explained is simply that "pukul" = "punch" ... "pukulan" = "science of punching; method of punching" (just as your GMs have explained).

The "pukulan" systems that I'm familiar with simply use the term "pukulan" as a descriptor to indicate that they use a lot of striking.

I'm not sure if I answered your question or not. The people that I've heard using the term "pukulan" are Dutch or Dutch-Indonesian. As I understand it, the term "pukul" was originally a Dutch word ("poekoel") ... so it stands to reason that the Dutch and Dutch-Indonesians would use it as a descriptive term for systems that use a lot of striking.

Mike

 

[Seigi]

From what Silat i have trained in & from my instructors knowledge,
The term Pukulan can be found in the Pencak Silat taught by Pendekar William Sanders, Full name Pukulan Cimande Pusaka.

Pukulan = Hitting, Cimande = Flowing, Pusaka = Rare or Old.

So one translation is that his Style of Silat is: Continuous or Flowing strikes & contains old or Rare techniques of Indonesia.

Checkm out their website at www.Cimande.com


Hope this helps.

Peace & Harmony Always
Enoch

 

[krys]

Seigi, pesilat,
what kind of conditioning do you practice in your pukulan training?

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by krys
Seigi, pesilat,
what kind of conditioning do you practice in your pukulan training?

Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

Part of the Silat that I do is from Cimande as taught in Mande Muda by Pak Herman Suwanda (RIP). There are some traditional conditioning methods (involving sugar cane beatings and such) that I'm aware of but wasn't subjected to. The primary conditioning we did came from the jurus which are all 2 man jurus. The first 5 jurus really focus on the conditioning of the forearms. My forearms are pretty well conditioned (though pale in comparison to my instructor's forearms - he went through a lot more rigorous conditioning while training in Indonesia with Pak Herman). That's the only conditioning that I've formally worked on. My shins are reasonably well conditioned, but not from any concerted effort ... just from years of bashing shins with other people in sparring and training.

Mike

 

[krys]

I used to do a lot of body conditioning while learning indonesian setia-hati-terare silat, this was done in coordination with breathing techniques. There were also a mental conditioning forms (also using breathing- hitting some parts of the body) to developp agressivity-power and to ignore pain.....



I just wonder if you guys use some special ointment-lotion for your conditioning.....
Somebody I trust on the matter told me that there is some really amazing chinese lotions used by people training the Iron Palm...

If you have knowledge of some ointments and you want to share i would be interested
to hear more about it.


By the way the Indochinese threads are not really active.....

Thanks,
Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by krys
I just wonder if you guys use some special ointment-lotion for your conditioning.....
Somebody I trust on the matter told me that there is some really amazing chinese lotions used by people training the Iron Palm...

In Cimande Silat, they traditionally use an liniment called "balur." My instructor has some that he got while he was in Indonesia. I don't know where to get any, though, or what's in it.

The Chinese liniment to which you're referring is dit da jao. I have some that one of my instructors gave me. I don't have a recipe for jao, but I know they can be found.

There are some recipes on the internet and, I think, a lot of Chinese herb shops sell kits with all the herbs and such in it with directions for making it.

Run a search on google.com for "dit da jao" ... don't know how authentic any of them are, but they might be worth looking at

Mike

 

[krys]

Thanks Mike,

Yes the ointment I was referring is dit da jao, I just could not remember the name although I didn't know it was so famous....


Mabuhay ang filipino Silat at Arnis.

 

[Seigi]

I have also used this ointment alot.

The main type of conditioning our instructor has us do is, strike each othe with fists, palms, feet, shins, elbows, knees, etc... at different targets with different degrees of force, To assist in giving & receiving strikes.

& yes this thread is not very active.

Peace

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Seigi
The main type of conditioning our instructor has us do is, strike each othe with fists, palms, feet, shins, elbows, knees, etc... at different targets with different degrees of force, To assist in giving & receiving strikes.

What are the targets of these strikes?

 

[Trent]

Interesting,

My instructor(s) have stated that pukulan is equivalant to "to collide" not necessarily "punch." I believe that the westerners who have learned to call some silat and kuntao arts "Pukulan" do so mainly because of the teacher's background, the language barrier and cultural differences.

Here in the west is we are used to the "spoon fed approach" or the the anal retentive, but much easier to digest, tendency to standardize everything to the smallest detail. Many southeastern asian arts simply do not do that. Much of what a guru does may not even have a formal name (as in kenpo and karate), the instructor tells you we are doing "xxxxxx" and their local dialect gives it a name for reference. Someone else may call it something else.

All of this has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the system or principles of motion involved, nor does it speak to the validity of the system and the teacher.

Oh, and the targets of those shins, knees, elbows, palms, punchs, feet, shoulders, head, hips depend upon what you're training or drilling and the level of the student.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Trent
Interesting,

My instructor(s) have stated that pukulan is equivalant to "to collide" not necessarily "punch."

I heard it meant crashing bodies or colliding objects. I had always thought that this system would be a lot like Pak Suwanda's Cimande, but of the styles of Pukulan I have seen they didn't really emphasize hard striking although some had an lot of fast whip-like strikes.

I think that the Indo systems generally lack the structure that you find in many other arts. They seem to be peicemeal because there is so much crosspollination from other villages/arts/cultures. Obviously this makes them no less effective.

 

[bustr]

Pukulan = Pugilism

It's just a pronunciation. The Pukulan I've seen looks just like 19th century Western bare knuckle boxing with some low kicks. My guess is that the term Pukulan indicates a Dutch/Indo strain.

 

[Trent]

While there are certainly some, no many, similarities to classic bare knuckle boxing and pukulan, if they looked just alike except for some low kicks I would say that there were some things definitely missing.

I've done both extensively, and bare knuckle boxing is very sophisticated, no doubt, but the approach, method and mindset is decidedly different than a pukulan based art.

Like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Pugilism could be considered an aspect of pukulan, but pukulan is not pugilism. There are more defining qualities to squares and pukulan.

 

[unterlich]

hahhaa pukulan is not a style

if u hit something with ur hand it's called pukulan !!!
its from the
verb pukul=hit and imbuhan -an so pukulan= the noun form of pukul/hit

thank you
terima kasih yaaa

 

[OULobo]

hahhaa pukulan is not a style

if u hit something with ur hand it's called pukulan !!!
its from the
verb pukul=hit and imbuhan -an so pukulan= the noun form of pukul/hit

thank you
terima kasih yaaa

Not necessarily. That would be like saying that Boxing is not a style. The word describes a verb and the specific noun also.

 

[unterlich]

uhm boxing is a modern style from the word box that i dont really know what that mean

when u say pukulan in indonesia, people here wont recognized it as a fighting style,
the culture here never make pukulan as fighting style.
Its just a regular activity.

 

[Trent]

uhm boxing is a modern style from the word box that i dont really know what that mean

when u say pukulan in indonesia, people here wont recognized it as a fighting style,
the culture here never make pukulan as fighting style.
Its just a regular activity.

And since what is done in Indonesia not a "regular activity" for the United States, we call it pukulan. If two boys are tussling in the playground for fun we would probably call it wrestling. But it is a regular activity.

Further, "Ninpo" is a method or way of endurance. I think there is nothing wrong with it, but some would think it odd.

Why are you bringing this up and implying it's a problem?

 

[unterlich]

And since what is done in Indonesia not a "regular activity" for the United States, we call it pukulan. If two boys are tussling in the playground for fun we would probably call it wrestling. But it is a regular activity.

Further, "Ninpo" is a method or way of endurance. I think there is nothing wrong with it, but some would think it odd.

Why are you bringing this up and implying it's a problem?

oh im sorry then

 

[wadokai_indo]

And since what is done in Indonesia not a "regular activity" for the United States, we call it pukulan. If two boys are tussling in the playground for fun we would probably call it wrestling. But it is a regular activity.

Further, "Ninpo" is a method or way of endurance. I think there is nothing wrong with it, but some would think it odd.

Why are you bringing this up and implying it's a problem?

Please pardon my friend Unterlich. In Indonesia, we speak Indonesian, and referring to a fighting style as "Pukulan" will be a bit confusing for the natives here. For example, if you talk to an Indonesian Karateka that you study Pukulan, then he will say "Great, I study Pukulan too, my art of Karate contains many Pukulan".. or something like that. Because Pukulan simply means Punching, a generic technique found in almost all martial arts styles.

But off course, outside Indonesia, it is fair enough to refer to a Silat style as Pukulan. You just have to be more specific if you are in Indonesia. That's basically it.