Oh Lord, where to start with Aikido?

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by cypher, Apr 22, 2016.

  1. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    711
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Cluj
    I think physiological processes arising from limbic system cannot be engaged forever.. peak then fall, this is not correct? Like anger is a flow it cannot be a perpetual state.. it cannot be maintained without stimulus.. If you persist violently with someone who is angry then YOU are the stimulus, yes??

    Is not impossible to have compassionate intent for someone who apparently wish to harm you, you do not agree?? As martial artists we have no obligation to consider these things???
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    11,827
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    If they have reached what is referred to as "emotional hijacking", it is a slow process to reverse it (a chemical process), unless another strong emotion (like fear) is introduced. Anger is actually a threat response system gone awry. If I prolong the physical interaction, yes, I'll feed back into that system. However, my point is that if they're trying to hurt me I need to end it quickly (and sometimes that quickest path is injury to them). So, the level of my response is designed to shorten the engagement. If I happen into a short path that ends with a harmless immobilization, that's excellent. If what's presented doesn't lead that way, I'll end the attack with whatever means I have at hand, and being willing to injure them opens up more options.

    If I have a chance to choose (and that can happen), then I'll choose the less-injurious methods so long as they are equally likely to protect me. My primary goal is self-defense, so I go with what gives me the highest chance of that end. Protecting them where I can is a close second, but always second.
     
  3. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    4,460
    Likes Received:
    3,074
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    My issue with pain compliance techniques is that reaction to pain can vary immensely depending on the individual and the situation. Some people, especially under the effects of drugs, alcohol, or adrenaline, will ignore ridiculous levels of pain (up to and including broken bones) and keep on fighting. Others will not. A lot depends on their mindset.

    My preferred way to avoid having to hurt an assailant is to avoid or defuse the situation before it develops. If that fails but I feel like my skill level is sufficient to control my attacker without injuring them or risking injury to myself, then there are approaches to pin someone using leverage without relying on pain compliance. If I didn't feel like that was a safe option, then I would move directly to rendering someone structurally incapable of harming me - either rendering them unconscious or breaking the limbs they are using to attack me.

    If you've had successful experiences relying on pain compliance to end an attack, then that's great. I would just keep in mind that there are situations where that approach will probably not work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. slink

    slink White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
     
  5. slink

    slink White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    In reply to #27 if you're talking about an Arm Bar then it would be Ikkyo. The NGA equivalent to Nikkyo would be Jacket Grab and also First Wrist.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    11,827
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Hey, you know the NGA techniques and the equivalents! Thanks!

    Something I've been meaning to ask someone: would NGA's 3rd Set Wrist also fall into Nikkyo? I've never fully comprehended what the differentiations are among the techniques by the Japanese names.
     
  7. slink

    slink White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    11,827
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I've always considered it a variation of the same technique as the 1st Set Wrist and Jacket Grab (which are truly two variations of the same technique).
     
  9. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Messages:
    27,510
    Likes Received:
    1,414
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    • Like Like x 4
  10. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    711
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Cluj
    Very deft, love to watch those.. Could be Aiki yes kote gaeshi or similar JJ maybe? Awesome plus also he is Professor of Defence against the Dark Arts! ooh yes please and thank you! Can I be apprenticed pretty pretty please?? :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. O'Malley

    O'Malley Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Isn't it shiho nage?
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    11,827
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Yes, it's apparently kote gaeshi. The movement matches movement I've seen in Ueshiba's Aikido, as well as some JJ, so I'm with you on that. The "toss" at the end of the kote gaeshi is a movement we use to lock after that throw (and I think I've seen at an Aikikai dojo, as well), and apparently works well as a finish if the throw doesn't do the work.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. O'Malley

    O'Malley Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    28
    My bad, shiho nage is done by spinning the other way around and twisting the arm to the outside. So kote gaeshi.

    ...right?
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    13,946
    Likes Received:
    2,792
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I like how the officer obviously has extensive martial arts training as evidenced by one movement.

    Otherwise that is pretty much my only disarm.
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    11,827
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Correct, assuming I'm visualizing your description correctly.

    EDIT: You're lucky - I actually know the Japanese names for only a few techniques, and those two are among them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    711
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Location:
    Cluj
    Hey I think you could be forgiven for seeing shiho nage here because it is quick.. though is more like kote gaeshi you know simple twist of the wrist if you watch so uke go in the direction of his fingers hopefully straight down neatly in his own space though (even this technique done wrong encourage lot of flamboyant ukemi though that is for another day! :D)

    Shiho nage he would have stepped under so uke whole arm would be bent at elbow on it self and taken uke down backwards (usually though there is other stuff you can do for sure)

    Wishes x
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    11,827
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Agreed. Shiho nage can also be done with a pivot, rather than stepping under the arm (so, bringing arm over, rather than you under), which would be closer to the movements in this video - it works with the pulling-back of the arm. More technical, and requires more precision, IME.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Spinedoc

    Spinedoc Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    238
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Location:
    Rochester, MN
    In hamni handachi, you can even execute shihonage by moving uke around you. Here's a ryotedori version, but it can be done from katate dori. You simply hyperextend uke's wrist with a slight lassoing motion. They will move, because the alternative is worse......This is one of my faves....

     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

    Top Poster Of Month

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    11,827
    Likes Received:
    3,270
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    True enough, assuming they don't lose balance and fall on you (probably a likely scenario outside the dojo). The same can be done from standing, if the right position presents itself. Both are less technical than the version I was referring to, but require a more specific start, IME.
     

Share This Page