now i am pissed off

[thekuntawman]

i posted this on bladeforums, and i am posting it everywhere else.

www.huntedmovie.com

look for "train for combat" and then find "kali"

after all of the talking we do about what are the true philippine martial arts, authtentic martial arts of the philippines TODAY....(kali vs. arnis and eskrima) now we have the non-martial arts public is told from this website, and the movie, that the ancient art of kali is pass down for hundreds of years in secret. this is so much ******** the people who gave this information KNOWS they art is arnis-eskrima with a new "revived" name of KALI. so now, every authentic philippine martial arts instructor who might benefit from the popularity from this movie, is going to be passed over, so that the movie goer can find this "ancient secret art" of KALI.

this is my problem with you guys who use the words and throw them out to all the non-FMA who dont know the truth. pananantukan, kinomutai, blind princesses, muslim kali, and everybody wears a machete....these informations are being given over and over by men who might been told the myth a long time ago, then they found out the truth, now they are continuing to tell the garbage they know is not true to people who dont know better.

so where does this leave the FILIPINO philippine martial artists and his students? we are over looked, so that the ignorant can chase fancy stories about stuff they read in the magazine and computer, and now, the movies.

YOU GUYS KNOW NOW, WHAT IS KALI AND WHAT IS THE TRUTH ABOUT PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS, AND YOU STILL WANT TO TELL YOUR OWN VERSION OF OUR HISTORY. why not? you do it with every body else history, the filipino might as well be next.

 

[arnisador]

At the JKD class I take, a potential new student came in last week. She brought her high-school age cousin who was visiting from the Philippines. After the class, the instructor asked the cousin if she knew about Kali. She said no. Arnis? No. How about Eskrima? Yes, she said--that's stick fighting! Had she studied it? No, just karate. (She had earlier done some idle techniques on a heavy bag--reverse punch, a few kicks--and I think it may actually have been Tae Kwon Do.) Her English was pretty good, though not perfect, and I do think she understood the questions.

 

[KenpoDragon]

Kuntawman, you REALLY need to lay off with the HOLIER THAN THOU stuff. Just because "you think" your art is the one and only true art does not mean it is. What does Kali mean??? Mother Art right??? Man you need to realize that there are different forms of FMA's, it's just like Japanese Karate, how many forms of Karate are there??? I know of at least a dozen. Just because "some" people choose to call FMA's Kali, doesn't mean that you and you alone must take it upon yourself to straighten the world out. Kali is a general term, much like Karate, with many different styles. What do you care if this instructor or that instructor calls their art Kali? It's their choice right? I could call my art THE SUPREME SUPER DUPER EXTRAORDINARY FIGHTING ART if I felt like it, but I don't. My old instructor told me that the style he was teaching me was called Kali, and the specific name of our style of Kali was called Kalis-Kalis. If he would have called it Super Weapons Combat, then that's what I would call it. It's all about respect for ones art, I understand that you believe that you are trying to save your heritage or whatever it is you are fighting for, but come on give it a rest already. Every one of your posts that I have ever read is about the same subject. Who cares what a movie says, movies have been manipulating the martial arts world for decades, with there versions of what they think martial arts is. Just look at movies like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. I don't know any martial artist that can fly, do you? Oh by the way Arnisador, ask some Filipinos about how many different forms of dialects there are in the Phillipines. There are thousands, so what if one girl didn't know what Kali meant, that doesn't proove anything.

:deadhorse get it???


:asian: KenpoDragon

 

[moromoro]

KenpoDragon you NEED TO START LOOKING AT FACTS>>>>>>

THE WORD KALI DOES NOT EXIST IN ANY OF OUR LANGUAGES OR DIALECTS.........................................

please start respecting this, you can call your art kali or whatever but just dont say that it is an ANCIENT PILIPINO MARTIAL ART because this is complete false and if you BELIEVE THIS than i feel sorry for you.........

like i said i dont care if you call your KALI or MULE style ESKRIMA as long as you dont say that KALi is an ancient PILIPINO MARTIAL ART this is FALSE............

Master Diego has said that the first time the word was used was in YAmbao's book then it was popularised by DAN INOSANTO from VILABRILE...................

RESPECT OUR LANGUAGES AND DIALECTS THE WORD KALI DOES NOT EXIST......................


THANK YOU

TERRY

 

[Wingman]

...ask some Filipinos about how many different forms of dialects there are in the Phillipines. There are thousands, so what if one girl didn't know what Kali meant, that doesn't proove anything.

There are about 80 Filipino languages & dialects, not thousands! The 2 most widely spoken Filipino languages are Tagalog & Bisaya (Cebuano). I speak both languages. The word "Kali" is not found in either language. However, I don't know about the other 80 or so languages if the word "kali" is included in their vocabulary. But if Kali is the "mother art of FMA", isn't it logical that it would be widely used in the Philippines?

 

[Cebu West]

YOU GUYS KNOW NOW, WHAT IS KALI AND WHAT IS THE TRUTH ABOUT PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS, AND YOU STILL WANT TO TELL YOUR OWN VERSION OF OUR HISTORY.

Nothing you say will be taken with respect as long as you keep using terms like "YOU GUYS." You don't want us to generalize but you continue to do so. We are not all the same and do not all think alike, however we my all think alike when it comes to you if you continue these attacks.

SAL

 

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by moromoro
KenpoDragon you NEED TO START LOOKING AT FACTS>>>>>>

THE WORD KALI DOES NOT EXIST IN ANY OF OUR LANGUAGES OR DIALECTS.........................................

I NEVER SAID IT DID.

please start respecting this, you can call your art kali or whatever but just dont say that it is an ANCIENT PILIPINO MARTIAL ART because this is complete false and if you BELIEVE THIS than i feel sorry for you.........

Don't put words in my mouth, I never stated anything about Kali being an ANCIENT FILIPINO MARTIAL ART,did I??? Nope. By the way Terry/Moromoro, do you actually speak all 80 languages???? I DOUBT IT! By the way please don't "feel" anything for me.

like i said i dont care if you call your KALI or MULE style ESKRIMA as long as you dont say that KALi is an ancient PILIPINO MARTIAL ART this is FALSE............

Once again, I never said that!!! read my post before you start swinging. And if you actually don't care what I call "my" art, then why are all of your posts about the exact same thing???

Master Diego has said that the first time the word was used was in YAmbao's book then it was popularised by DAN INOSANTO from VILABRILE...................

RESPECT OUR LANGUAGES AND DIALECTS THE WORD KALI DOES NOT EXIST......................

I do respect "your" languages and dialects do you??? All "YOU GUYS" show people on this forum is disrespect!!! What does that say for your culture? Your always trying to defend your "culture" but if you really thought about it you would see that you are causing people in general to have a very bad opinion of your "culture". You and the Kuntawman always shoot first!!! You guys think that you are the champions of the Phillipines or something??? Like I said in my original post, what do you care what other people think, if you "supposedly" know the truth?

 

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by Wingman
There are about 80 Filipino languages & dialects, not thousands!

Well excuse me!!! Big deal, there are a lot of different dialects, that's what I meant, stop being so technical.

The 2 most widely spoken Filipino languages are Tagalog & Bisaya (Cebuano). I speak both languages. The word "Kali" is not found in either language. However, I don't know about the other 80 or so languages if the word "kali" is included in their vocabulary.

Just like you said, you DON'T speak the other 80 or so dialects.

But if Kali is the "mother art of FMA", isn't it logical that it would be widely used in the Philippines?

I never said it was THE MOTHER ART OF THE FMA, did I, I said Kali meant mother art. Are you telling me that you have personally studied ALL the Filipino martial arts styles??? Yeah OK, sure.......I believe you, really I do!


:shrug:

 

[Kirk]

Kung Fu was the mother art of China ... nowadays, and for the past what? 50 years or so, it's been outlawed in China. Now they do Wushu .. even in the Shaolin temples. It's practiced more in the U.S. than it is in China. How long before Chinese could come on here, claiming that Kung Fu, regardless of style is NOT a Chinese MA? Another 50 years or so? That's long enough for 3 generations to go by without ever seeing Kung Fu in China. At that time, someone could potentially come on here and say "YOU ARE DISRESPECTING OUR CULTURE, KUNG FU IS NOT AN ANCIENT ART OF CHINA!"

Given the numerous regime changes of the Phillipines, how could one factually say that Kali never existed there?

 

[dearnis.com]

Master Diego has said that the first time the word was used was in YAmbao's book then it was popularised by DAN INOSANTO from VILABRILE...................

Is this Master Tony Diego of Kali Illustrisimo?

 

[Dave Fulton]

Originally posted by Kirk
Kung Fu was the mother art of China ... nowadays, and for the past what? 50 years or so, it's been outlawed in China. Now they do Wushu .. even in the Shaolin temples.

With all due respect Kirk, you should check your facts.

1.) "Kung-fu" refers to a skill (any skill) acquired through hard work. A musician, painter, carpenter, cook, etc. can have "kung-fu" in their field. You can look at a master of any craft and say that they have "kung-fu".

2.) Wu translates roughly as "martial" or "military" and Shu translates as "art". Therefore, "wushu" = "martial art"

3.) Today we have "traditional" or "classical" wushu and Modern Wushu. Modern Wushu was designed by the State so that a standard could be established for judging in competition. The "traditional" wushu sytles are still practiced, but they do not receive State support.

Respectfully,

David Fulton

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Dave Fulton
With all due respect Kirk, you should check your facts.

1.) "Kung-fu" refers to a skill (any skill) acquired through hard work. A musician, painter, carpenter, cook, etc. can have "kung-fu" in their field. You can look at a master of any craft and say that they have "kung-fu".

2.) Wu translates roughly as "martial" or "military" and Shu translates as "art". Therefore, "wushu" = "martial art"

Respectfully,

David Fulton

I wasn't going to say it, because I got Kirks point. This is true, however. Kung-fu is actually pronounced "Gung-Fu," as well. Although it often refers to any skill, it most commonly refered to as generic martial arts, in the same way "Karate" or more recently "kickboxing" is a generic term for martial arts here in the states.

I had a friend who spent 4 years in China, and studied "Gung-Fu" when he was there. I remember when a female friend from china was over, and she mentioned his style. I then mentioned I study arnis. She gave me a confused look, then my friend reinerated with "Pilipino Gung Fu," and she then understood.

A discussion on proper Chinese terminology probably belongs on a different thread, so I'll shut up now.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Dave Fulton
With all due respect Kirk, you should check your facts.

1.) "Kung-fu" refers to a skill (any skill) acquired through hard work. A musician, painter, carpenter, cook, etc. can have "kung-fu" in their field. You can look at a master of any craft and say that they have "kung-fu".

2.) Wu translates roughly as "martial" or "military" and Shu translates as "art". Therefore, "wushu" = "martial art"

Respectfully,

David Fulton

Okay, my bad ... I was recently educated on the translations, so
excuse my choice of the words. What I meant though, was the
true combart martial arts of old China are practiced more in the U.S. than in China. Styles like Hung Gar, Tai Chi, Wing Chun, etc
are forbidden to be practiced in China (or so sayeth the
documentary I saw on the Discovery Channel). Since the traditional styles of combat martial arts were outlawed, WuShu
was developed. And then ... the rest of my previous post is still
a possibility.

 

[moromoro]

Given the numerous regime changes of the Phillipines, how could one factually say that Kali never existed there?

i think we should understand that the word KALI is obviously a new term (WORD) regarding the pilipino martial arts and it was popularised by dan inosanto.......


terry

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by moromoro
i think we should understand that the word KALI is obviously a new term (WORD) regarding the pilipino martial arts and it was popularised by dan inosanto.......


terry

You didn't really answer the question .. so in regards to THIS post
over 80 dialects ... numerous regime changes .. how do you
know? Vietnam had a french rule for how long? like 50 years?
The entire Vietnamese language has LOADS of words that are
now based on the french language. If in 50 years, and only ONE
regime change ... that's a grand impact. How can you so
emphatically say that the word Kali is "new" ???

 

[grimfang]

There are different versions of the origin of the use of the word Kali as a martial arts term. Some claim it comes from the two word syllables Kamut which means "Hand" and Lihok which means "Movement". In short this translates to Hand Movement, with or with out weaponry. Some believe it comes from India's art called Velakali or "Sword play". A third version simply claims that Moro's warriors of the southern Philippine resembled the Hindu Goddess of death called Kali when they engaged in battle.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by moromoro
i think we should understand that the word KALI is obviously a new term (WORD) regarding the pilipino martial arts and it was popularised by dan inosanto.......


terry

As a Filipino martial artist, I can say that this is what is excepted to be true.

Does this mean that we should get our panties in a bunch because someone decides to use the word "Kali" for their system? I don't think so.

What probably happend with that movie trail? Who knows? The system that was used for the movie was Sayoc "Kali." Some writer probably just used the name, did minimal research, and wrote in inaccurate information.

I don't think this movie trailer was an attempt to rewrite history, and thwart Filipino culture. This assumption is not logical. It is more likely to assume that when writing the trailer, the writers were more concentrated on marketing then accuracy, and out of sheer lazyness they printed what they did. No consperecy here.

I can agree with Kuntawman that it can be fustrating that people outside of the arts don't take the time to get their facts straight w/ FMA, or with ANY martial art for that manner. But face it, martialtalkers, The general public, American and otherwise, don't care about martial arts, period, let alone accuracy regarding martial arts.

I can't agree with Kuntawman's elequent way of stating his fustrations, however. When it is posted in an accusing manner and tone, people don't understand what the "real" problem is. Some people here think that kuntawman is mad at the use of the "name" Kali, which I don't think is true. Some think that your using this as a way to get on your soapbox(again) and slam on "American ignorance" of FMA, which could be true.

Kuntawman, when you post with emotion instead of logic (added with an accusatory tone and generalizing words) people are going to have a difficult time taking you without the grain of salt.

I think that the real problem is that people outside of the martial arts community just don't give a damn about getting their facts straight. The way this was originally posted, who'd of known this? :shrug:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kirk
Kung Fu was the mother art of China ... nowadays, and for the past what? 50 years or so, it's been outlawed in China.

I don't believe that this is correct.

I do believe that the term 'kali' was not widely used for the FMA until recently. Just my take on the evidence I've seen. My first post in this thread was meant just to be a single data point.

 

[kkbb]

Do you tink dis guy and .....

Originally posted by moromoro
i think we should understand that the word KALI is obviously a new term (WORD) regarding the pilipino martial arts and it was popularised by dan inosanto.......


terry

...dis guy,

Originally posted by thekuntawman
i posted this on bladeforums, and i am posting it everywhere else.

www.huntedmovie.com

look for "train for combat" and then find "kali"

after all of the talking we do about what are the true philippine martial arts, authtentic martial arts of the philippines TODAY....(kali vs. arnis and eskrima) now we have the non-martial arts public is told from this website, and the movie, that the ancient art of kali is pass down for hundreds of years in secret. this is so much ******** the people who gave this information KNOWS they art is arnis-eskrima with a new "revived" name of KALI. so now, every authentic philippine martial arts instructor who might benefit from the popularity from this movie, is going to be passed over, so that the movie goer can find this "ancient secret art" of KALI.

this is my problem with you guys who use the words and throw them out to all the non-FMA who dont know the truth. pananantukan, kinomutai, blind princesses, muslim kali, and everybody wears a machete....these informations are being given over and over by men who might been told the myth a long time ago, then they found out the truth, now they are continuing to tell the garbage they know is not true to people who dont know better.

....might be the same guy?

hmmmm...... a certain lack of capitalization.... similar grammar probs.....

Just an observation....

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by kkbb
....might be the same guy?

I hope not. I like the Kuntao man.