Not to be taken down

[jobo]

That would help somewhat. But watch him as the fight goes on. He’s leaning forward more and more, both lowering his guard and throwing his center of gravity off. The more he leans, the easier it is to dump him by pulling him forward. Being stronger will help, but it won’t be a cure if he’s going to do that. A good takedown fighter will just exploit it with a few modifications and/or different takedowns.

The best way to learn to avoid being thrown around and taken down is to train with people who actually know how to do it to you. Learning how to do it against people who are also trying to do it to you teaches you far better than anything else. None of that anti-grappling crap I see around the net that middle school wrestlers with a few weeks of training could make look stupid.

Want to learn how to beat a boxer? Bring in a good boxer to spar with. Want to learn how to beat a good kicker? Bring in a good kicker to spar with. The list goes on and on. A partner who does what you do but watched a few videos on something else and tried to copy it doesn’t prepare you very well for someone who’s good at what they do.

well yes and no, the easy answer is to learn wrestling or bjj, but that not really easy, as you will need years and then integrate it in to wing Chun, or give up wing Chun all together and do something that involves grappling. But I'm assuming the question is, how not to get taken down using wing Chun or another predominantly striking art against someone who's,style involves grappling

the,short answer is you can't,at least not against a pro MMA fighter, who grapples for a living. Against someone who isn't very good? Maybe, punch and move don't let them get hold of you.

yes the guy got worse as the fight went on, he had burnt his muscles out resisting and was realising it was hopeless, so it got easier and easier for the mma guy.

if he had been able to match him for strength and weight from the beginning, then he would have had more to give later on, possibly not to change the result, but to be less embarrassing. He wasn't taking him down with fancy throws, just knocking him over with brute strength

i have not a not disimilar, match up at the dojo, against someone who is very fast and punches really well, matches last until i get hold of him, then its all over, I'm to big and to strong,

 

[Danny T]

Here is a drill we do. But it takes 3 or more people.

One guy is worked on the pads while you have a third guy just takes him down randomly.

So you get a bit of punchy punchy and some sprawly sprawly at the same time.

Good drill...we do this as well. Having several people who attempt takedowns make it quite interesting as well. Never know what angle the takedown is coming from. Sucks but makes one better.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

your partner is trying to take you down, and you're not allowed to take them down - your only job (without running away or hitting) is to stymie their takedown.

I like to use the following training.

- If you can take me down within 1 minute, you win that round. Otherwise, I win that round.

Repeat for 15 rounds daily and record the daily result. Keep doing this for 1 year and record the annual result.

 

[JR 137]

well yes and no, the easy answer is to learn wrestling or bjj, but that not really easy, as you will need years and then integrate it in to wing Chun, or give up wing Chun all together and do something that involves grappling. But I'm assuming the question is, how not to get taken down using wing Chun or another predominantly striking art against someone who's,style involves grappling

the,short answer is you can't,at least not against a pro MMA fighter, who grapples for a living. Against someone who isn't very good? Maybe, punch and move don't let them get hold of you.

yes the guy got worse as the fight went on, he had burnt his muscles out resisting and was realising it was hopeless, so it got easier and easier for the mma guy.

if he had been able to match him for strength and weight from the beginning, then he would have had more to give later on, possibly not to change the result, but to be less embarrassing. He wasn't taking him down with fancy throws, just knocking him over with brute strength

i have not a not disimilar, match up at the dojo, against someone who is very fast and punches really well, matches last until i get hold of him, then its all over, I'm to big and to strong,

You don’t need years to develop solid takedown and takedown avoidance skills. Middle school kids learn it to a functional level in a few weeks. A dedicated adult will learn them even better within a few months. Then it’s just fine tuning.

The throws, even early on had some muscling in them, but it wasn’t a show of brute strength winning by any means. The WC guy just had no clue what the MMAer was doing to him. Part of letting his guard down was fatigue, but part of it was most likely his attempt at adjusting. Not very effectively adjusted though.

 

[AngryHobbit]

Not to be taken down is important. But how to train it? Your thought?

Isn't it kind of rude to throw your opponent at the judges? (0:45)

 

[AngryHobbit]

Here is a drill we do. But it takes 3 or more people.

One guy is worked on the pads while you have a third guy just takes him down randomly.

So you get a bit of punchy punchy and some sprawly sprawly at the same time.

I like that! I wonder how often people's challenge with being taken down is... the fact that they are afraid of being taken down. Once you've been thrown around a few times at random, you quit worrying about being thrown and start thinking about what to do to throw the other guy.

 

[jobo]

You don’t need years to develop solid takedown and takedown avoidance skills. Middle school kids learn it to a functional level in a few weeks. A dedicated adult will learn them even better within a few months. Then it’s just fine tuning.

The throws, even early on had some muscling in them, but it wasn’t a show of brute strength winning by any means. The WC guy just had no clue what the MMAer was doing to him. Part of letting his guard down was fatigue, but part of it was most likely his attempt at adjusting. Not very effectively adjusted though.

ok, so.. According toc you, it takes only a few weeks to learn skills to stop you being dumped over by a bigger stronger Mma professional fighter

 

[Gerry Seymour]

ok, so.. According toc you, it takes only a few weeks to learn skills to stop you being dumped over by a bigger stronger Mma professional fighter

I'm pretty sure that's not what he said.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

ok, so.. According toc you, it takes only a few weeks to learn skills to stop you being dumped over by a bigger stronger Mma professional fighter

IMO, to avoid being taken down, you will need at least 2 basic skills:

1. Body vibration power - like a fish vibrate in your hand that you can't get a solid grip on it.
2. Your ability to shake your opponent - the moment that you feel your opponent tries to take you down, you give him a quick shake - push and pull (or pull and push).

Sometime a simple punch on your opponent's shoulder (similar to shaking) can stop your opponent's take down.

 

[JR 137]

ok, so.. According toc you, it takes only a few weeks to learn skills to stop you being dumped over by a bigger stronger Mma professional fighter

I’ll answer with an equally stupid answer...

Sure. Anyone can keep a bigger and stronger pro MMA fighter from taking them down in only a few weeks. I’m going to start an online course soon. $99.99 for the first week.

The king of taking something and spinning it to the most asinine levels imaginable. Are you sure you’re not an attorney?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

IMO, to avoid being taken down, you will need at least 2 basic skills:

1. Body vibration power - like a fish vibrate in your hand that you can't get a solid grip on it.
2. Your ability to shake your opponent - the moment that you feel your opponent tries to take you down, you give him a quick shake - push and pull (or pull and push).

Sometime a simple punch on your opponent's shoulder (similar to shaking) can stop your opponent's take down.

Those might work, but I don't think they are universally necessary. I've known some guys who were mighty hard to take down, and never had one use the fish flopping escape. Well, maybe they did, and it's just a different application of the same principle. It certainly didn't look or feel like that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Those might work, but I don't think they are universally necessary. I've known some guys who were mighty hard to take down, and never had one use the fish flopping escape. Well, maybe they did, and it's just a different application of the same principle. It certainly didn't look or feel like that.

The body vibration force is similar to the hand shaking force except you use your body to shake. When your opponent

- pulls you, your body give a quick pull (force against force).
- pushes you, your body give a quick push (also force against force).

You try to interrupt your opponent's throwing force during the initial stage.

 

[jobo]

I’ll answer with an equally stupid answer...

Sure. Anyone can keep a bigger and stronger pro MMA fighter from taking them down in only a few weeks. I’m going to start an online course soon. $99.99 for the first week.

The king of taking something and spinning it to the most asinine levels imaginable. Are you sure you’re not an attorney?

well you are critiquing a wing chuner fighting a bigger and heavier AND stronger professional mma fighter, and saying he should learn not to get thrown about and that should only take a few weeks, what's inaccurate in my answer above?

 

[drop bear]

well you are critiquing a wing chuner fighting a bigger and heavier AND stronger professional mma fighter, and saying he should learn not to get thrown about and that should only take a few weeks, what's inaccurate in my answer above?

Yeah but we have seen guys who know what they are doing resist takedowns fron bigger guys. So size isnt the only factor.

Found this while looking at some robert whitaker stuff.

 

[jobo]

Yeah but we have seen guys who know what they are doing resist takedowns fron bigger guys. So size isnt the only factor.

Found this while looking at some robert whitaker stuff.

yes's, but that's going back to what i said earlier, to over come a stronger bigger fighter, the wing Chun guys needs five years of bjj, not as some have it three weeks of lessions

 

[drop bear]

yes's, but that's going back to what i said earlier, to over come a stronger bigger fighter, the wing Chun guys needs five years of bjj, not as some have it three weeks of lessions

In three weeks you get a working concept. In five years you can stop a pro fighter.

And your percentage of success increases untill you reach that point.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That MMA vs. WC clip shows it doesn't matter which striking art style that you may train, if you don't have knock down power, you will have no chance to deal with a wrestler.

 

[JR 137]

well you are critiquing a wing chuner fighting a bigger and heavier AND stronger professional mma fighter, and saying he should learn not to get thrown about and that should only take a few weeks, what's inaccurate in my answer above?

You really need to learn how to read throughly instead of selectively. I never said anything close to what you’re saying. I said a dedicated adult can learn takedowns and takedown defenses in a few MONTHS, not weeks. Read it again. And I never said anything about being competent enough to defend against a pro fighter. An average Joe hobbyist is NEVER going to be good enough at any aspect to beat a pro fighter in actual competition. Yes, you can quote me on that one. No matter what the WC guy does, he’s never going to give that guy any trouble; he’s simply outclassed in practically every way. It looks like amateur vs pro to me. And no, it’s not solely a matter of size and strength. Just like there’s no way I’d beat a lightweight UFC fighter, regardless of me outweighing him by a good 50 lbs, even if I wasn’t carrying 20 extra pounds of flab that I need to get rid out. Way too skilled for me.

Your reading comprehension skills are truly on another level. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[drop bear]

That MMA vs. WC clip shows it doesn't matter which striking art style that you may train, if you don't have knock down power, you will have no chance to deal with a wrestler.

There is a concept we train. Once you are no longer throwing effective strikes get out. So if he is not doing a Rhonda Rousey he is probably about to counter.

 

[Anarax]

An average Joe hobbyist is NEVER going to be good enough at any aspect to beat a pro fighter in actual competition. Yes, you can quote me on that one. No matter what the WC guy does, he’s never going to give that guy any trouble; he’s simply outclassed in practically every way.

I'm thinking along the same lines. These Traditional Martial Artists are playing right into his hands(no pun intended). I'm not questioning their dedication as Martial Artists, but they should know what skill class they're in. Them challenging Xu Xiao Dong (Pro MMA fighter) is helping to prove his point. More importantly it's putting traditional MA in a negative light. If GSP said "Kali sucks" and gives an open invitation for someone to physically prove otherwise in the octagon, I'm self aware enough to know I'm probably not going to win that fight.

There will always be naysayers and big mouths, that doesn't mean anyone who studies your style will be a great representative to challenge him. Kung Fu/Sanshou has had a lot of great Professional representation including Fang Bian , Cung Le, Liu Hailong, Muslim Salikhov, Zhang Tiequan, Zou Shiming and Hossein Ojaghi. I only used Pro fighters for Xu Xioa Dong is professional as well.