No women allowed In this guys BJJ class

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Headhunter, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    So seen this on Facebook. Apparently this instructor is refusing to teach women students for some reason. I don’t know the guy and don’t know his reasons but thought I’d post it on here and see if anyone knew. Here’s the post I saw.

    Kat Hill
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Because some students complained that the head coach was too rapey, pretty much.

    Simple solution.


    Wait for it........




    Do MMA.
     
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  3. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    I was meaning to touch on this the last time it came up, and it was overlooked. But i think it slightly funny, as there are i dont know how many female only classes out there, and legally speaking you can exclude them in the U.K. (since its a private event not a public one, so not protected)


    Anyway, its his perogitive and its lawful and its doing the same thing that female only schools do.

    Go to a class that lets females in is the simple solution. :p


    Addendum: Reply was slightly rushed.

    Addendum 2: I was also wondering if anyone restricted female membership, so thanks for sharing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
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  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    i think people are short of something to worry about, i am excluding from various groups, clubs competitions based on my gender ethnicity religious believes or sexual orientation.

    i just go somewhere that wants me or people like me, it really that simple, forcing myself into the Irish gay christian society just to prove a point,seems pointless
     
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  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    though i did have a great deal of fun with a local college, that was stopping me from using the disabled entrance, as that didnt accept my dyslexia as disability.a threat to sue them for discrimination changed their minds
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Feels a little like a bunch of white men sitting around talking about what an unnecessary fuss we made over Jim Crow laws.
     
  7. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    Disclaimer: I think Jim Crow was an abomination, and my post is not in reference to Jim Crow, but rather the other things being discussed here.

    I think it's hard to find the line between whose rights are interfered with. I think it's especially difficult, because there are many nuances that are specific to a situation.

    For example, in sports, the average man is stronger than the average woman. The average male athlete is more athletic than the average female athlete, and the peak male athlete is going to hold more difficult records than the peak female athlete. In this particular example, allowing men to compete in a women's division would be bad for a sport. Allowing women to compete in the men's division is fine, because they are the ones choosing the more challenging arena. For example, the WNBA should be exclusive to women, but if a woman wanted to play in the NBA, I don't see any reason why she shouldn't on account of her gender (of course, she should be capable of playing at that level in order to be in the league).

    With other things, it starts to get fuzzy. For example, I had a coworker that was upset because she got turned down for a job at a church because she wasn't Christian. In most businesses, that would be concerning. If I were to run a grocery store and only hire Christians, that would not be right. But it makes sense for a church, whose entire business is about Christianity, to want people who believe in the same stuff the church believes in. Just like how I'd expect a hospital to not employ someone who is anti-vax, or NASA to not employ a flat-earther. On the same token, I'm surprised she applied for a job at a church, considering she was an atheist. This is the kind of point @jobo is trying to make in Post #4, is if you're not wanted somewhere, then vote with your feet and your wallet and go somewhere where you are wanted and spend your money there.

    Almost every time something like this comes up, I think both sides of the argument are asking for too much of the other side, and there's a middle ground that's a lot more fair and tramples on less people's rights (over their autonomy or against discrimination). Going back to Jim Crow, that is not an example of these types of debates. The thing that concerns me is some of the extreme voices that are basically calling for a return for segregation (such as in the recently-torn-down CHOP, one of their demands were for black doctors that only treat black patients). I'm just hopeful that's a fringe voice and not a rallying cry.
     
  8. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Hadn't heard that one. But it might be a great idea. Forget about credentials and go for a precise color match. BTW I'm speckled beige with areas trending from pink to tan.

    Other than that, the guy excluding women from his classes sounds way off base. But I don't know what the context is.
     
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  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well maybe just guys wanting to hang out with guys, there is nothing intrinsically evil about that

    back when i was a lad pubs were split into two, the vault, what you might like to call the saloon, which was men only, they just talked ****, told dirty jokes and did guy things like fighting and darts

    and the lounge which was mixed or rather just women , as all the girls has been abandoned by their men to go in the vault, leaving the girls to have conversations about knitting patterns and who had the worse husband

    it all seemed to work quite well, till them women libers force their way in and then complained they didnt like it and everything had to change, next thing you know there are curtains soft furnishings and you cant spit on the floor
     
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  10. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    the exemption for religious organizations is actually not fuzzy at all. It’s in title vii.

    the other examples you gave are similar, but are not examples of a protected base.

    Regarding the op, I think the legal issue is whether the School is considered to be a club or a public accommodation.

    regarding Jim Crow laws, any time we discuss separate but equal accommodations we are treading in that pool.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    The demand was that hospitals hire more black doctors and nurses to care for black patients. It’s based on data that black patients are treated very differently by white doctors, than whitE patients.

    im on a stupid iPad, so it’s tough to find it, but you’ll be appalled at the data if you do research on it... the worst being pregnancy related death rates, but also data on how pain is treated (based on a racist myth that black people feel pain differently) and all kinds of stuff.

    is it strictly legal to request black only doctors? Maybe not, but I do understand where it comes from, and think some additional representation would help.
     
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  12. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    This is kind of what I'm talking about. Women should be allowed in the saloon. If they don't like the atmosphere, they should leave instead of changing it from something the guys liked. That way, everyone's happy.

    But to say "no women" or for the women to come in and change it, both of those are the extreme ends that someone gets the short end of.

    I think there are much better answers than segregated hospitals. I don't particularly have them, but I know that's not the answer.

    Should I ask to only have white doctors? Should white doctors refuse black patients? I see it several times in doctor shows when there's a black doctor and some neo-nazi comes in and asks for a white doctor. They'd rather be sick than be touched by a person of color. I don't think that's right, and I don't think it's right in any direction.

    I was specifically choosing examples that wouldn't get this thread locked.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    sure, but as I said before, it’s easy for a bunch of white guys to say this, because we aren’t being disadvantaged.
    i agree. And also, I understand where the demand comes from, even if it may be illegal. The answer may not be the best, but the issue is real.
     
  14. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The context is that one of Ricardo De La Riva’s former students (a top female black belt) has accused him of sexual assault. Apparently he thinks the best way to handle that is to just not have any female students.
     
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  15. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    are we not treading in that pool, if any discrete group has a meeting place for themselves alone
     
  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    but why cant guys have a safe place were they can give each other moral and emotional support, it doesnt seem a lot to ask
     
  17. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    So the question (at least in the US) becomes if the place is a business or a private club. I can invite whoever I want into my home. But when you start refusing service based on gender, that's the problem.
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    but in the pub example your not deigning service, just access to one( two r)room out of maybe three or four or more.

    clearly you denied access to the toilet for the wrong gender, why is the saloon bar intrinsically different, the people who use it want it to be single gender

    in one of the local pubs, the manchester united supporters club meet, they just exclude anyone who isnt a supporter, i know i tried to gain entry to tell them they were mistaken in their believf that UNITED are the finest football team

    there are female only times at the local swimming pool, and countless more examples

    no one seems to think thats a problem
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  19. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    I didn't realize it was a separate room in the pub. I thought it was just a separate pub.
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Depends on what you mean by group and meeting place.123
     

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