No More Heros?

[Brad Dunne]

Sitting here looking thru all the many venues on MT and in turn looking at how martial arts in general has changed, I asked myself just who is out there anymore being the poster person for the arts. In the past, we had the likes of Ed Parker, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, just to name a few, that we looked up to and aspired to follow in the arts because off. With the proliferation of scandals, phony rankings, MacDojos amd self appointed PuBa's, just who, if there's anyone, is out there worthy of being looked upon in the same vain as those mentioned. Are there NO MORE HEROS?..........:vu:

 

[Blindside]

They aren't heroes, at least not as I would define them.

What are Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace famous for??? Fighting in a ring, I wouldn't call them heroes, but certainly many aspired to get to their level. No different than watching champ MMA fighters these days.

Bruce Lee wasn't idolized because of his skill, but because he was a movie star, that he had a (supposedly) new philosiphy and great skills to back them up didn't hurt. Again, not a hero, and I'd put a 90's Jackie Chan flick in before anything by Bruce.

Ed Parker was a pioneer, one of several of his era to bring martial arts to the mainstream, but not a hero. Pioneers are always respected, what we do today is because of their efforts, and it is hard to get the recognition when you are part of the second (or third) waves.

Again they aren't heroes, they are just people who happened to get famous for different reasons.

Lamont

 

[exile]

Sitting here looking thru all the many venues on MT and in turn looking at how martial arts in general has changed, I asked myself just who is out there anymore being the poster person for the arts. In the past, we had the likes of Ed Parker, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, just to name a few, that we looked up to and aspired to follow in the arts because off. With the proliferation of scandals, phony rankings, MacDojos amd self appointed PuBa's, just who, if there's anyone, is out there worthy of being looked upon in the same vain as those mentioned. Are there NO MORE HEROS?..........:vu:

It may be that the general development of the MAs has moved into a different phase where there's not as much room for heros. Something similar happened in skiing. In the days when skiing was just starting to loom large in the North American cultural scene—roughtly the postwar era through the early 1970s—there were a lot of heroes: Toni Sailer, Stein Ericksen, Jean-Claude Killy, Anne-Marie Proell... people who either through the force of their personality or their athletic and technical genius absolutely dominated the sport, standing head, shoulders and hips above the competition. These days, though, everyone is so good—first and tenth place in World Cup slaloms and even downhills are separated by tenths of a second, sometimes hundredths of a second—that no one clearly dominates; there are just too many outstanding prodigies for any one to rule absolutely the way Killy, say, did. It may be that something similar has happened in the MAs, as the number of practitioners has increased and access to technical information makes the level of competition that much tighter. And there are so many new and evolving systems out there now that yet another new one doesn't make anything like the same impact that innovations like Parker's or Lee's did in their time. Again, the cinema are a-glut with action hero types... I think the heroic era in the MAs may simply have come to an end as the arts have grown, the way it did in skiing...?

 

[tshadowchaser]

I think thaT ANY heros these days may be local to where one lives. The person may not be know world wide or even through out the country they live in but in the local area they may be very well know and looked up to as a hero or a ledgend in the making because of their knowledge and honor

 

[Carol]

Ya know I read posts like this:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46527

...and remember that there are heros everywhere. I'm afraid I can't even thank most of them...they are so humble that I don't even know who they are.

 

[fnorfurfoot]

Sitting here looking thru all the many venues on MT and in turn looking at how martial arts in general has changed, I asked myself just who is out there anymore being the poster person for the arts. In the past, we had the likes of Ed Parker, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, just to name a few, that we looked up to and aspired to follow in the arts because off. With the proliferation of scandals, phony rankings, MacDojos amd self appointed PuBa's, just who, if there's anyone, is out there worthy of being looked upon in the same vain as those mentioned. Are there NO MORE HEROS?..........:vu:

I think that instead of using the term of heroes, I would consider that list of names as "people we look up to and wish we could meet or could have met." I think that any list of names you get will depend on the style of MA that the individual studies. I come from a Kenpo background and unfortunately many of the people who I would have like to have met are no longer with us. Examples are Ed Parker, Nick Cerio, and David German. I am unable to travel around the country to train but if I could I guess two people who I would like to meet would be Larry Tatum (I've seen his tapes and am impressed with his ability) and Jeff Speakman (It is because of Perfect Weapon that I decided on Kenpo in the first place) But I don't think that I would consider either of them my hero.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

No persin ever qualified as a hero by being a martial artist, they qualified because they used their lives at one point for something selfless or for other people.

 

[Andrew Green]

Sakuraba
Wanerlei Silva
Yoshida
Rickson Gracie
Royce Gracie
Jet Li
Tony Jaa
Jackie Chan
Mike Chat
Randy Couture
Ken Shamrock
Frank Shamrock
Roy Jones Jr
Want me to continue?

I don't see a shortage of people that could / and are considered heros by there fans. Although they have changed "type". Not as much for karate-like or boxing styles nowadays, more MMA for ring sports and Kung Fu for performance based stuff.

 

[Kreth]

Wow, I saw the title of this thread and thought one of my favorite series had been cancelled...

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Sakuraba
Wanerlei Silva
Yoshida
Rickson Gracie
Royce Gracie
Jet Li
Tony Jaa
Jackie Chan
Mike Chat
Randy Couture
Ken Shamrock
Frank Shamrock
Roy Jones Jr
Want me to continue?

I don't see a shortage of people that could / and are considered heros by there fans. Although they have changed "type". Not as much for karate-like or boxing styles nowadays, more MMA for ring sports and Kung Fu for performance based stuff.

I'd consider them to be more an inspiration than a hero. But then I suppose someone who inspires you could be considered a hero.
I just think hero is a silly word to attach to martial arts. Its like attaching it to flower-arranging or being a wine conneissuer.

 

[Andrew Green]

People choose hero's for the oddest reasons

Besides, I don't think there is much about Wallace, Lee, Norris and Parker that those guys don't have as well.

 

[lostinseattle]

Guess it depends upon who you talk to. Like Andrew Green pointed out there's a lot of people watching MMA and a lot of people that are idolized on there.

It's just TMA that doesn't seem to have as much of an impact anymore, and it seems like it's because of a focus on schools on profits and not fighting applications.

When traditional schools require a bunch of forms and require a new set at every new school, while at the same time lessening practical fighting applications, it makes it difficult for people to develop any practical skill.

Hence, there are no heroes anymore in TMA because they don't do fighting. It's all very money oriented, scandal oriented, political infighting oriented.

In essence, it seems like greed and apathy have killed off TMA from relevance. The public these days is looking to new venues: UFC and Pride and MMA.

 

[crushing]

People choose hero's for the oddest reasons

Besides, I don't think there is much about Wallace, Lee, Norris and Parker that those guys don't have as well.

Definately, heroes are more of a personal choice than a popularity contest. I don't know that it is a bad thing to not have Martial Arts Idol. When idols are emulated, innovation stalls.

And to Andrew's second point, it makes me think of runners breaking the four minute mile.

 

[still learning]

Hello, One more hero here! It is those people who became our role models. Many were our Parents...the Dad's, the Mom's, a grand parent.

Those are the true hero's....a school teacher,a friend, the person who help you change your life!

They are everywhere! You see them everyday....and everywhere...small one's and large ones...just got to look around you. Some will show up in the near future.....be ready. (some will never be known to many).

Anyone can be a HERO....to someone....even you! .....Aloha

PS: Do you have one? ....most of us do...just look!

 

[jdinca]

Sakuraba
Wanerlei Silva
Yoshida
Rickson Gracie
Royce Gracie
Jet Li
Tony Jaa
Jackie Chan
Mike Chat
Randy Couture
Ken Shamrock
Frank Shamrock
Roy Jones Jr
Want me to continue?

I don't see a shortage of people that could / and are considered heros by there fans. Although they have changed "type". Not as much for karate-like or boxing styles nowadays, more MMA for ring sports and Kung Fu for performance based stuff.

A great list of very respectable people who excel(ed) at their craft. I also agree that the definition of "hero" is an individual one. For me, I would consider people who are heroes to be those that have selflessly put their lives on the line for that of another.

These people are pioneers, leaders in their field, inspirations, whatever but I won't put them in my hero category. Everyone else is free to do as they wish!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

With the proliferation of scandals, phony rankings, MacDojos amd self appointed PuBa's,

those things were always there. luckily, today there's enough knowledge and sophistication in the general public that people are starting to notice and object to their presence.

 

[zDom]

It's kind of like that with guitar heroes, too.

There was Jimmi Hendrix and Jimmy Page and later on Eddie Van Halen and then guys like Joe Satriani or maybe Ingwe Malmsteen ... etc. etc...

but today?

It's all been done, or maybe its that the base level of ability has risen to the point where there is nobody that really stands out from the pack like they used to.

That, or those who truly ARE exceptional are not on the national/international stage, so to speak, but are quietly being excellent somewhere off in a corner like Don Ross in Canada (on guitar) or Grandmaster Bong Yul Shin in St. Louis (yudo/tkd/hkd) ...

Those two (Ross and Shin) are a couple of MY heroes at the moment; YMMV.

 

[lostinseattle]

It's kind of like that with guitar heroes, too.

There was Jimmi Hendrix and Jimmy Page and later on Eddie Van Halen and then guys like Joe Satriani or maybe Ingwe Malmsteen ... etc. etc...

but today?

It's all been done, or maybe its that the base level of ability has risen to the point where there is nobody that really stands out from the pack like they used to.

Well things have gotten very expensive and take Seattle, for example, 15 years ago you could rent a decent apartment for like $300 a month or something and work on music while working part time at a coffee house or something like that.

Doesn't really work like that anymore, not to mention they cut school music programs a ton.

The recording industry used to work off of 'talent' that they discovered. There were these things called bands that were started by people without a lot of money who had time to play and develop their music and skills.

When 'talent' got rare, they started corporate music and put together a singer and some studio musicians and made music, but that hasn't gone over extremely well, so sales are down, down, down ... not just because of illegal downloads although that hasn't helped things any.

So you've got commercialization of music, people without a lot of money or time on their hands. You've got the same thing with martial arts, commercial schools, watered down stuff, people without money or time on their hands. What martial artists these days have 2-4 hours a day to train as adults?

So this is the problem. The U.S. has become too mass consumer a society with too many people at the top leeching off the people at the bottom. It used to be the average executive made like 30x the lowest paid employee. Now it's more like 300x the lowest paid employee.

People have longer commutes because of high housing costs and traffic is extremely bad, so they have even less time on their hands because of that.

All in all it kindof sucks. Wait, what was the question?

 

[Andrew Green]

to the notion that Lee, Paker, Norris and Wallace's generation where better because they where first. Where they? What about Miyagi, Motobu, Funakoshi, Kano, Choi, Ueshiba, Wong Fei Hong, Huo Yuanjia, etc.

Each generation has its hero's, people that do something no one has done before, and each previous generation will find the next ones hero's shallow, and the previous ones overrated (Where'd that Bruce Lee thread go?)

Me? I'll always stick to the Ninja Turtles.

 

[zDom]

IMO, some WERE truly excepional; others just stood out for various other reasons while they probably were not any better than some of today's talent.

I'll leave it to you all as individuals to decide for yourselves which are which