No ideas about a video for an old Nam Vet?

[bsw]

Except that if he knew what he needed, he wouldn't be here asking.

He has shared nothing with us regarding his background, other than he is a veteran of the Vietnam conflict, and that he is disabled. We know nothing of the quantity nor type of combat (if any) that he experienced. That's not my business and I won't ask him; he can chose to share that information or not.

He is asking about instruction. The truth is, video instruction is junk, and I'm willing to share that truth with him. He can take or leave that advice, it's up to him.

When people come here asking about video instruction, I will give him a truthful answer: don't waste your time nor your money on it.

I know that getting a trainer/instructor would be the best way to go but, I just thought I might get at least something from a video. I was just assuming that using the old basic Infantry training in using the bayonet on a rifle would be a good transformation to stick or cane defense. Say, like the stance and frontal thrust using left hand forward and right back at the handle could be a good fast move...to whatever you hit, (I say "whatever" because my direct experience has been that in a street fight one just goes for whatever part of the body you can get at).
Just so you know, The Silver Star is a "combat only" valor award...as is the Combat Infantry Badge.
And, Is being wounded at the Hamburger Hill battle (Dong Ap Bia - Hill 937) enough combat after 10 1/2 months up in the mountains of steaming jungle along the Laotian border enough to say I saw at least some close combat?
I think I can safely say that you don't much about the military if you question someone having seen combat that was awarded the Silver Star. I also said I have been in more than a few street fights, so I have somewhat of an idea of what to expect in a close hand to hand fight.
And, waste of money?...What's a few bucks to a guy who just wanted to get a feeling, and maybe pick up something new...I mean, at the very least even if a video did me no good - it might be interesting just to watch. Don't yah think?
Sorry to get a bit testy, but I do find that your answers sound to me to be somewhat on the put down side of both my intellect and experience with close-in violence.

 

[bsw]

Very good...
Thank you much for your time spend in service and your valor.

As a combat vet you well know there is no set of quick moves or actions where one move does the job in a firefight or ambush...correct? Do your really believe such to be the case in a hand to hand situation as a civilian?

A cane can be an excellent accessory but again there is no one set of moves that does the job in all situations.

With your previous experience and apparent continued ability to utilize your firearm I'd build a self-defense profile around that capability and utilize awareness of surroundings, profiling persons around you, trueful knowledge of your weaknesses and strengths in defending yourself, and act accordingly.

Well, I found that hitting the ground as fast as one can is always a good thing to do even if already hit in an ambush...one seems to do that without training.(But I have seen one guy not do so, but he was the only one. I guess you might say he freaked out). And going for cover and concealment...(especially cover) if you can is always a good thing! But street fighting is indeed different as it is usually right in your face. However, once in combat I...

bsw

 

[Flying Crane]

I know that getting a trainer/instructor would be the best way to go but, I just thought I might get at least something from a video. I was just assuming that using the old basic Infantry training in using the bayonet on a rifle would be a good transformation to stick or cane defense. Say, like the stance and frontal thrust using left hand forward and right back at the handle could be a good fast move...to whatever you hit, (I say "whatever" because my direct experience has been that in a street fight one just goes for whatever part of the body you can get at).
Just so you know, The Silver Star is a "combat only" valor award...as is the Combat Infantry Badge.
And, Is being wounded at the Hamburger Hill battle (Dong Ap Bia - Hill 937) enough combat after 10 1/2 months up in the mountains of steaming jungle along the Laotian border enough to say I saw at least some close combat?
I think I can safely say that you don't much about the military if you question someone having seen combat that was awarded the Silver Star. I also said I have been in more than a few street fights, so I have somewhat of an idea of what to expect in a close hand to hand fight.
And, waste of money?...What's a few bucks to a guy who just wanted to get a feeling, and maybe pick up something new...I mean, at the very least even if a video did me no good - it might be interesting just to watch. Don't yah think?
Sorry to get a bit testy, but I do find that your answers sound to me to be somewhat on the put down side of both my intellect and experience with close-in violence.

In terms of seeking instruction in martial methods, I've given you honest advice, and that has nothing to do with your intellect. As I said previously, you are welcome to take my advice, or leave it, as you see fit. It makes no difference to me.

In terms of your military experience, I simply make no presumptions one way or the other. For all I know, your combat experience, including wounding, could have all been with rifles at 100 yards, and that is quite a different situation from hand-to-hand, and hardly relevant.

So, spend your time and your money as you see fit. Watch whatever video you wish. I didn't get the impression you wanted entertainment. I thought you were seeking some instruction.

Edit: I went back and reviewed the thread, I don't think you made any reference to having had street fighting experience, prior to your response to me. Please correct me if Ive missed something.

 

[bsw]

In terms of seeking instruction in martial methods, I've given you honest advice, and that has nothing to do with your intellect. As I said previously, you are welcome to take my advice, or leave it, as you see fit. It makes no difference to me.

In terms of your military experience, I simply make no presumptions one way or the other. For all I know, your combat experience, including wounding, could have all been with rifles at 100 yards, and that is quite a different situation from hand-to-hand, and hardly relevant.

So, spend your time and your money as you see fit. Watch whatever video you wish. I didn't get the impression you wanted entertainment. I thought you were seeking some instruction.

A Siver for a 100yd shot? That's third from the CMH. Hell 30 feet was just part of a grunt's job in the jungle...No medal for that. It's the JUNGLE! Get it? You are lucky when you can see 40 feet!

If it made no difference to you, you wouldn't have even answered. It's about your ego at this point. One can learn even from idiots every once and awhile don't cha know? I mean, is it not possible to learn at least some small something from a video? Like say, "Hey I learned he was right...I learned that I didn't learn anything".
Just fuggin' with you. I did not say lovely either. Well I guess I just did though. I get thrown off sites now and agian...don't know why...uptight people is my guess.

bsw

 

[Flying Crane]

A Siver for a 100yd shot? That's third from the CMH. Hell 30 feet was just part of a grunt's job in the jungle...No medal for that. It's the JUNGLE! Get it? You are lucky when you can see 40 feet!

If it made no difference to you, you wouldn't have even answered. It's about your ego at this point. One can learn even from idiots every once and awhile don't cha know? I mean, is it not possible to learn at least some small something from a video? Like say, "Hey I learned he was right...I learned that I didn't learn anything".
Just fuggin' with you. I did not say lovely either. Well I guess I just did though. I get thrown off sites now and agian...don't know why...uptight people is my guess.

bsw

Take care.

 

[bsw]

Take care.

Take care.

Correction:
I ment that the Silver Star is 2nd down from CMH (or third highest).
A grunt dosen't get that award for a 100 yard shot. I know from direct experience. It is one of three that stand alone for Valor under enemy fire. (That is: all others need a "V" device attachment to make it a valor under-fire award)...And since I got out of the Army they have added a whole bunch of new medals. The Silver has been cheated on by numerous field grade (Maj. and above) in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam...which may be why they have added so many more medals. But, I figure that even in all the oil wars the awards have been degraded or cheated on outright. But, if you are a "speedy no-grade" (what officers call us grunts), then the soldier most likely did something...usually it is because they HAVE to award it because of too many people came forward...but so many get nothing but the knowledge that they did earn that coveted Combat Infantry Badge. That's how I feel about the Silver I got; that is, it adds to the proof that I actually earned the CIB.

How about you send me a list of words not allowed on the site...Christ, the BAD WORDS on this place banned list are even more extensive than TV.

 

[bsw]

In terms of seeking instruction in martial methods, I've given you honest advice, and that has nothing to do with your intellect. As I said previously, you are welcome to take my advice, or leave it, as you see fit. It makes no difference to me.

In terms of your military experience, I simply make no presumptions one way or the other. For all I know, your combat experience, including wounding, could have all been with rifles at 100 yards, and that is quite a different situation from hand-to-hand, and hardly relevant.

So, spend your time and your money as you see fit. Watch whatever video you wish. I didn't get the impression you wanted entertainment. I thought you were seeking some instruction.

Edit: I went back and reviewed the thread, I don't think you made any reference to having had street fighting experience, prior to your response to me. Please correct me if Ive missed something.

From 1st thread:

"Do not think I will go to a school...My health is so bad that just getting around is a major project. Although I would like to look at a video...So does anyone have any one or two that would be of some help for a guy like me? I do know how to use a bayonet on a rifle and a police flashlight and how to break a neck real quick. Used to be a good street fighter but times have changed and I need something to ward of the assholes that love to love with the disabled. (And, I am still fast for an old fart. 10 flat was my best time running the 100 yard dash in my youth).

bsw.

 

[Danny T]

Try Canemasters.
Some simple and direct techniques with a cane and some a bit overblown that are unlikely to be able to pull off without some serious training.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Except that if he knew what he needed, he wouldn't be here asking.

He has shared nothing with us regarding his background, other than he is a veteran of the Vietnam conflict, and that he is disabled. We know nothing of the quantity nor type of combat (if any) that he experienced. That's not my business and I won't ask him; he can chose to share that information or not.

He is asking about instruction. The truth is, video instruction is junk, and I'm willing to share that truth with him. He can take or leave that advice, it's up to him.

When people come here asking about video instruction, I will give him a truthful answer: don't waste your time nor your money on it.

Again...it is just your opinion...not truth. But you are entitled to it. Like my opinion is that most instruction with a live instructor...is simply monkey see, monkey do. With no real substance for actual training.

 

[oftheherd1]

I know that getting a trainer/instructor would be the best way to go but, I just thought I might get at least something from a video. I was just assuming that using the old basic Infantry training in using the bayonet on a rifle would be a good transformation to stick or cane defense. Say, like the stance and frontal thrust using left hand forward and right back at the handle could be a good fast move...to whatever you hit, (I say "whatever" because my direct experience has been that in a street fight one just goes for whatever part of the body you can get at).
Just so you know, The Silver Star is a "combat only" valor award...as is the Combat Infantry Badge.
And, Is being wounded at the Hamburger Hill battle (Dong Ap Bia - Hill 937) enough combat after 10 1/2 months up in the mountains of steaming jungle along the Laotian border enough to say I saw at least some close combat?
I think I can safely say that you don't much about the military if you question someone having seen combat that was awarded the Silver Star. I also said I have been in more than a few street fights, so I have somewhat of an idea of what to expect in a close hand to hand fight.
And, waste of money?...What's a few bucks to a guy who just wanted to get a feeling, and maybe pick up something new...I mean, at the very least even if a video did me no good - it might be interesting just to watch. Don't yah think?
Sorry to get a bit testy, but I do find that your answers sound to me to be somewhat on the put down side of both my intellect and experience with close-in violence.

You bring up an interesting point about bayonet practice. I would agree that you could use the same tactics, with the exception of any slicing techniques unless modified to strikes, since a cane wouldn't have a sharp edge.

BTW, I know what you mean, but others might be misled by your reference to the CIB. It is not a valor badge, but is a badge showing time (at least 30 days) in a combat zone while in an infantry unit, and with the infantry military occupation specialty (MOS). That was sometimes stretched, especially prior to mid-1967, so that any MOS that accompanied infantry units into the field on operations, could get a CIB.

All appearances are that Hamburger Hill was a tough battle. You have my congratulations for surviving it, and surviving it being wounded.

I think Flying Crane is getting more mellow. He used to be more acerbic. But he does have a lot of MA knowledge, even if you don't always like the way he delivers it. Also, most people on MT think videos are a low percentage and dangerous way to learn a MA. There are so many things that require an on hand instructor to be sure you are doing things right. And if you don't do things right, you risk not being effective, and more likely to cause yourself injury.

 

[oftheherd1]

Again...it is just your opinion...not truth. But you are entitled to it. Like my opinion is that most instruction with a live instructor...is simply monkey see, monkey do. With no real substance for actual training.

If you ever had an instructor, he/she must have been really bad and ineffective. What art do you study and do you study under an instructor?

 

[bsw]

You bring up an interesting point about bayonet practice. I would agree that you could use the same tactics, with the exception of any slicing techniques unless modified to strikes, since a cane wouldn't have a sharp edge.

BsW, I know what you mean, but others might be misled by your reference to the CIB. It is not a valor badge, but is a badge showing time (at least 30 days) in a combat zone while in an infantry unit, and with the infantry military occupation specialty (MOS). That was sometimes stretched, especially prior to mid-1967, so that any MOS that accompanied infantry units into the field on operations, could get a CIB.

All appearances are that Hamburger Hill was a tough battle. You have my congratulations for surviving it, and surviving it being wounded.

I think Flying Crane is getting more mellow. He used to be more acerbic. But he does have a lot of MA knowledge, even if you don't always like the way he delivers it. Also, most people on MT think videos are a low percentage and dangerous way to learn a MA. There are so many things that require an on hand instructor to be sure you are doing things right. And if you don't do things right, you risk not being effective, and more likely to cause yourself injury.

You are not quite right about the CIB.
In order to get that award an enlisted Infantry soldier (or a LT. or Capt. working in the capacity of an Infantry commander), and must be under hostile enemy fire during a thirty day period. (There are exceptions to that rule however - A Special Forces Advisor officer up to the rank of Colonel that is under enemy fire during a 30 day period while in that position as an Advisor). And there are also exceptions to that rule, like say you are KIA, or WIA so bad that you can no longer qualify in the 11B MOS or Advisor position because of your wounds).
This is why Artillery Forward Observers do not qualify. One can volunteer for an Infantry MOS then go out an be an Infantry soldier and meet the other requirements and get the award...getting back one's old MOS might not be as easy as they think however...they just might get stuck out there...as a grunt forever, (except for officers). Few like that option though. As for me - I was an Infantry soldier from enlisting until the end, and did not want it any other way. That is why those who did get the CIB really know if they earned it or not...most others who did earn it know who earned it and who didn't. When one hears "Well, I was an Advisor." to the question, "Who were you with?", the former Advisor usually looks down and the grunt just smiles and quits that line of the conversation.
However, eyebrows go up when one says "101st", followed by "I heard of them".

bsw

 

[oftheherd1]

You are not quite right about the CIB.
In order to get that award an enlisted Infantry soldier (or a LT. or Capt. working in the capacity of an Infantry commander), and must be under hostile enemy fire during a thirty day period. (There are exceptions to that rule however - A Special Forces Advisor officer up to the rank of Colonel that is under enemy fire during a 30 day period while in that position as an Advisor). And there are also exceptions to that rule, like say you are KIA, or WIA so bad that you can no longer qualify in the 11B MOS or Advisor position because of your wounds).
This is why Artillery Forward Observers do not qualify. One can volunteer for an Infantry MOS then go out an be an Infantry soldier and meet the other requirements and get the award...getting back one's old MOS might not be as easy as they think however...they just might get stuck out there...as a grunt forever, (except for officers). Few like that option though. As for me - I was an Infantry soldier from enlisting until the end, and did not want it any other way. That is why those who did get the CIB really know if they earned it or not...most others who did earn it know who earned it and who didn't. When one hears "Well, I was an Advisor." to the question, "Who were you with?", the former Advisor usually looks down and the grunt just smiles and quits that line of the conversation.
However, eyebrows go up when one says "101st", followed by "I heard of them".

bsw

I was not up on all who could or could not be granted the CIB, but was really referring to it not being a valor award, such as an ARCOM w/V (sometimes I've heard the ARCOM w/V derisively referred to as an officers Good Conduct Medal ), Bronze Star w/V, and up. Regardless, anyone who qualifies for a CIB deserves respect.

BTW, was the 101st airborne at the time of Hamburger Hill? I think I heard that it was changed to Air Assault about that time? Did you have the 7 on your picket fence?

 

[bsw]

I was not up on all who could or could not be granted the CIB, but was really referring to it not being a valor award, such as an ARCOM w/V (sometimes I've heard the ARCOM w/V derisively referred to as an officers Good Conduct Medal ), Bronze Star w/V, and up. Regardless, anyone who qualifies for a CIB deserves respect.

BTW, was the 101st airborne at the time of Hamburger Hill? I think I heard that it was changed to Air Assault about that time? Did you have the 7 on your picket fence?

Leg outfit by then...still, it received the highest rating of any full division all throughout the war...and whenever some "AIRBORNE" types call me a replacement and tells me that HE was in the TET of '68...I respond by saying "So I guess you missed the Hamburger fight huh? They don't say much after that. I
can tell you this: I fought with the original 101 airborne qualified, the first replacements (like me), the stupid ones that McNamara allowed in and the college gad types who's deferments had run out, and I found no difference in fighting abilities. The Airborne guys were in better shape...but more sadistic and many were also stupid types with manhood problems...also, many reminded me of people who did time for some sort of violent crime...many had. The blacks were (almost to the man) outright cowards who did not want to be integrated into white Squads...They called it "White Man's War".

Like I said, officers cheated quite a bit with awards. But, almost all other Divisions had lower standards for awards...and officers had to push or pull strings just to get a platoon for 5 months, because the ARMY had an overload of officers because they knew that we were going to loose that war and figured that they could at least use a Vietnam command position as yet another ticket to get punched along with Airborne, Ranger and Special Forces qualifications that might be of use after the war. The joke was that after the war was over they threw out most of the OCS types , cowards, and dumber ones (except for those with a DSC or CMH)...Just like any war we ever had.
The Army also used the war for weapons development.

Could tell you even more real truths about that war but it would piss-off just about everyone...I know, because I have been thrown off many sites. No one wants to really hear the truth. And, hell, the surviver's of that war have paid enough...so let the subject be dropped. This ain't the place anyway. I mean all these "Senior Masters" and teachers who have never been a real fight to the death and all...don't want to piss on their ******** kick fighting. But they must know that a solid right cross shot to the slack jaw that pushes the perk into a parking meter beats all that fancy kick ball crap. OR, say a bayonet style cane shot to the gut is also good. Hell, if you can get the slob to fall off a curb and smash his head onto the concrete sidewalk is even better!
Which brings me to the end of this talk - All I ever wanted out of this place was something else dirty I didn't know...But all I got is preaching about avoiding and such. I ain't running anymore...too old...and don't care because my days are numbered. AND some guy says use a fire arm?!...See...Now...The cops don't like that ****...They (and only they) want to be the ones that carry...Makes them nervous in my town...don't know about yours...


BSW