No ID - College Student Tazed - 3 Times

[michaeledward]

There is a seven minute video floating around YouTube.

Apparently a Middle-Eastern Looking student at UCLA was walking into the schools computer lab. He did not display his student ID.

The campus police tazed the student three times.

It is unclear what occurred before the first shock. The student, later in the tape, claims he was leaving the building.

From what I heard and saw, the student, after the first tazing, began practicing what appeared to be a civil disobedience tactic of not assisting the officers. They yelled at him several times to stand up (He hands were restrained behind his back at the time). When he could not, or would not acceed to their request, they tazed him a second, and then a third time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/11/16/ucla-student-tased-repeat_n_34272.html

 

[Bob Hubbard]

[yt]VP_M8s0GFEc[/yt]

Looks like an abuse of power to me.

 

[FearlessFreep]

A bit complicated

From this update

Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down.

Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his *** kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students…this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he’s the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.

Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was “I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems”.

He definitely taunted the UCPD into behaving the way they did with him.

Edit: Many people have questioned the fact that the cops tazed him and asked him to get up, and tazed him again even though he shouldn’t have the capability to get up. This was not the case here to my knowledge, because the cops were using their “drive-stun” method which administers less of a jolt than normal. I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up.

And later:

[H]e just said he was leaving to add fire to the scene. The guy wasn’t going anywhere until he got tazered. It was a bait tactic on the part of tazer-boy. When the cops initially asked him to leave he was limp like a drunk’s dick.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Colorful description there....lol

Heres a few (gazillion) links
http://tailrank.com/847886/OH-MY-GOD-UCLA-student-tased-in-library-by-uni-police

My question is, if he was passively resisting (ie going dead weight), why the need to zap him at least 3 times?

 

[Arizona Angel]

My question is, if he was passively resisting (ie going dead weight), why the need to zap him at least 3 times?

Yeah, why not cuff and carry...they had enough officers.

 

[CoryKS]

Colorful description there....lol

Heres a few (gazillion) links
http://tailrank.com/847886/OH-MY-GOD-UCLA-student-tased-in-library-by-uni-police

My question is, if he was passively resisting (ie going dead weight), why the need to zap him at least 3 times?

Maybe because the goal was to make him leave the building, not to go limp and fall to the floor?

Honestly, this is something my son did when he was two. What a child. In any case, the whole romantic fantasy of Standing Up To The Man (tm) kinda falls apart unless somebody gets tazed once in a while.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, if that was the case, why not just draw guns and point them at his head, then? That would move my *** outta there at warp speed.

I'd like to know what the law, and police rules of engagement consider justified use of force, in regards to using a taser on a non-resisting subject, and on a passive-resisting subject.

If he was refusing to go, if he was being violent, I have no problem. Zap the hell outta him. But if all he did was go limp, I see no need to zap. Cuff n carry sure.

The other part is, if he was actually moving towards the exit as demanded, even if in a slow manner, I again see no reason to zap.

I'm sure theres more than 1 video floating around, and over the next day or 3, more eye witnesses will come forward with more information.

At this time, I feel that excessive force was used. More info will either change or reinforce that opinion.

 

[Makalakumu]

I totally appreciate the use of a tazer as a non-lethal tool to end dangerous confrontations. I oppose the use of a tazer as a tool of compliance. When we allow these methods to be used in this way, we are saying that it is okay to torture someone to get them to do what they want.

And by torture, I mean torture. I was once a security guard and we had to be tazed for training. This was THE most painful experience of my life. I think of it as a muscle cramp that hits the entire body.

Not pleasent.

Anyway, for those of you who have no problem with this, lets just hope that you aren't the one who is peacefully protesting something you believe is wrong...

 

[Cruentus]

Why is it that when I watch this, I have absolutely no sympathy for the student? I realize that it is hard to see what is going on in the video, and that it is hard to get the whole story. But from what I am able to tell, the student was being a total jackass, in my opinion. He seemed completely unwilling to cooperate with the officers, both before and after the "tazing." He seemed more interested in making a political statement of some sort, neglecting the fact that he was the one who didn't have his ID on him. It is hard to tell, but I am assuming by the video that the student didn't just say "O.K. I'll go grab my ID and I'll be right back." It appeared that the student was unwilling to leave or cooperate, and that was what led up to the incident.

I'll tell you what, If I don't have my ID or parking pass for U of D, I won't even be let passed the gated enterance unless I can produce some sort of documentation that I am supposed to be there. And I am as white as the day is long. So I don't think that this was a case of profiling, or "patroit act" crap, or anything that the student was yelling. Requiring proper identification is pretty standard at most universities now a days.

That said, I will state one opinion regarding tazers. I think that they are incredibly useful in controlling a subject, and I think that when properly used can be a great asset to the officer as well as the perp., reducing injury for both participants.

However, I don't believe that tazers should be used when the cuffs are on. I just don't think that tazers should be a part of the force continuum at that point, unless there is a clear case that the cuffed person is putting others in serious danger where tazing is the only viable option to stop the subject without lethal force. That would be a huge stretch, however, and I can barely think of a circumstance where a cuffed person should be tazed. Now, keep in mind that a cuffed person can still do a lot of damage, and that cuffs aren't the magic end all to the threat. But certianly, I think that trained officers with numbers on their side can subdue a cuffed subject in almost all cases without the use of electricity. My opinion is open to change with experience or evidence regarding this, but I doubt that will happened.

That said, I can't exactly fault the officers in that situation. Most likely the blame lies in their training. Since the widespread use of tazers, I am seeing some of the same mistakes that were being made over 15 years ago with OC spray training; that being that the tool is being taught as the end all be all magic solution. The tool is being touted as completely safe and harmless, and as completely effective. This is not the truth, however. Although it is true that tazers are more effective then other less lethal tools, while the risk is minimal, there is no end all be all solution. There is still a need for a proper force continuum that includes hand-to-hand subject control.

So, I hope that many of the departments who might view this incident as well as other incidents will rethink how tazers are being taught, if they are of course guilty of the training mistakes I described. Because although the student was probably being a jackass who deserved to have his *** tazed, you can't just do what you think people deserve when you wear the badge. And I am sure that the last thing these officers wanted was to end up on "you tube" with questions as to whether or not they acted appropriately...

Paul

 

[CoryKS]

One thing is certain - Cynthia McKinney better stay clear of the UCLA computer lab.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Jut a couple of questions:

1) Why did he not have his ID? ** I mean anyone can forget but on college you cannot do anything without it **

2) Why is their a video?

3) Put question one together and Question Two together and the fact of how he reacted and acted to begin with, maybe he knew the tactics and responses and planned the whole thing. So this question is Hmmmm, this make me wonder?



Edit:

Why was the person with the video hiding it from the security and police? Why was it not running before they showed up? If the person was really trying to capture the event why did they only capture what they did?

 

[Makalakumu]

Jut a couple of questions:

1) Why did he not have his ID? ** I mean anyone can forget but on college you cannot do anything without it **

2) Why is their a video?

3) Put question one together and Question Two together and the fact of how he reacted and acted to begin with, maybe he knew the tactics and responses and planned the whole thing. So this question is Hmmmm, this make me wonder?

Does it matter? Should a tazer be used as a compliance device? I would say no. In my opinion, that sort of thing infringes on our 1st amendment rights of Freedom of Expression.

 

[airdawg]

There is always a video. People can record vids with their phones. Some are pretty good too.

 

[Cryozombie]

Anyway, for those of you who have no problem with this, lets just hope that you aren't the one who is peacefully protesting something you believe is wrong...

All I can say to that, is we used to zap ourselves for fun... it hurt like hell, but I'd take a quick jolt or 3 over being Pepper Sprayed or beaten with a club anyday.

Were these guys in the right? How the hell do I know, I wasnt actually there... but if the "kid" in question was not complying, and was standing up for himself (by laying down so to speak) I applaud his effort, but am not supprised by the results, nor should he, or anyone else be. You have to expect consequences for those type of actions, I think we should be glad it was not a beating with clubs, or somthing worse.

 

[airdawg]

Does it matter? Should a tazer be used as a compliance device? I would say no. In my opinion, that sort of thing infringes on our 1st amendment rights of Freedom of Expression.

I've been tased several times. Not that bad. Compared to the alternatives. Exp. OC spray.

 

[CoryKS]

BTW, whatever happened to making principled stands? How did protest come to be defined as "having a temper tantrum over every little thing". Cripes, my kid is on his seventh year of civil disobedience. Yesterday, he wanted to play Playstation after karate. I told him no because it was too late. Apparently, what he did next is now considered staging a peaceful, if somewhat noisy, demonstration on the living room floor.

Protest for the sake of protest is lame. Throwing a fit and calling it a protest is ultra-lame.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Does it matter? Should a tazer be used as a compliance device? I would say no. In my opinion, that sort of thing infringes on our 1st amendment rights of Freedom of Expression.

John,

A tazer was not used by the students who were part of the safety from my understanding. It was used by the PD which are actual police and trained in use of force and the laws associated with it.

As to use of force, people are upset when four or five police carried a person away and they jerked and the police could not stop the person from falling. Another tactic used to make a point or by those who are so high or drugged up they do not know any better or feel it.

Some people are upset about impact tools as a weapon of compliance.

Some people are upset by the use of fire hoses as a weapon of complaince.

The Tazer might seem cruel, and it might hurt but it usually gets the response required.

As I have seen all of the above tactics myself, the Tazer gets peoples attention no matter what condition they are in mentally or physically.

So, the question John is if a child in your class refuses to comply what do you do? Obviously you do not taz them but they get their way with their disruption.

While I personally think the Government has taken more of our civil liberties than these tactics have.

The question I have to ask is no one in this country wants to take responsisbility for their own actions and no one wants to educate people with the note that certain things are not acceptable in public or in society. Yet it seems more and more people want to protect everyone from being touched, but the person was not complying with a reasonable request.

I proved a point once at a University, by using water guns and water ballons to make my point that between 12:00 Noon and 1:00 PM the only person who could respond or make a decision was a student dispatch and a student safety officer. It too them much longer than anyone expected to get someone of authority their to respond to my requests/demands. At the sign of the first person of authority, I complied with all requests. I was not in trouble for no damage was done. The senior staff of the U were impressed that I had figured out the best time to cause a problem, and asked what I had done before my scene to try to change it. I talked to Safety and the Dean's Office and student government which I was a member of, and no one thought it was important.

So there are ways to make your point.

There are ways to bring things to people attention and still take responsibility for their own actions.

So yes in my opinion in this case from what I have seen, it was a reasonable response.

 

[Makalakumu]

[yt]VP_M8s0GFEc[/yt]

Looks like an abuse of power to me.

At the very end of the video, they carried him out. And I counted the number of tazerings as FIVE (listen for the screams).

Campus security could have avoided a huge lawsuit by just carrying the man out.

 

[Rich Parsons]

All I can say to that, is we used to zap ourselves for fun... it hurt like hell, but I'd take a quick jolt or 3 over being Pepper Sprayed or beaten with a club anyday.

Were these guys in the right? How the hell do I know, I wasnt actually there... but if the "kid" in question was not complying, and was standing up for himself (by laying down so to speak) I applaud his effort, but am not supprised by the results, nor should he, or anyone else be. You have to expect consequences for those type of actions, I think we should be glad it was not a beating with clubs, or somthing worse.

Yep the Police ring of being pushed into another officer who has to defend himself sucks real bad. For as soon as one sees it is open as you move even with your hands behind you you are stil hit. ** I know from experience on this one **

There are ways of protesting and making a point, there are ways of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and getting an over zealous officer.

In this case, I still stand on my experiences of watching and being involved in receiving many of the other methods of control, that this situation was not out of hand and as long as the department had authorized the use of Tazers and the officer had his training then no probelm in this case.

 

[Rich Parsons]

At the very end of the video, they carried him out. And I counted the number of tazerings as FIVE (listen for the screams).

Campus security could have avoided a huge lawsuit by just carrying the man out.

I disagree.

If he kicked out or struggled and the dropped him, and he hit his head then they get sued.

But now he knows they are serious, and so do the rest of the studnets at that college.