ninja weapons?

Discussion in 'American Ninjutsu' started by Enson, Aug 12, 2004.

  1. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    Very serious. The thread is very serious. The person having to come up with an idea for his test is very serious. I'll take a look at your Comedy Cafe. Don' t have a good sense of humor. But I do like the idea of using unorthodox weapons, found in the home. Requires imagination which is most likely why his sensei adds this to his teachings. Who is "we?"

    To Andrew: Very serious also about the place that tp can venture to. There was a certain name mentioned in his post that I find not something necessary to even mention in jest.

    As far as a "favorite" Ninja weapon, I really don't differentiate. But, I am interested in chain weapons because of the challenge they present to the person learning. Very difficult to say the least so the challenge, in itself, is of interest.
     
  2. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    Wow, that big of a Darth Vader fan?

    Jeff
     
  3. AaronLucia

    AaronLucia Guest

    I wasn't under the impression that 'sai' were ninja weapons, at least iv'e never seen any pictures of them in training, at least not hte 2 sided kind.

    Well wait..the Ninja turtles had 'em..so i could be wrong. :>)
     
  4. Enson

    Enson 3rd Black Belt

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    actually sai were discussed here earlier on this thread. we came to the conclusion that it would be plosible to believe that ninja would have adapted such a useful weapon. if not some of the neo ninjutsu ryu have adapted them, and i think that is what andrew makes reference to.
    peace
     
  5. Genin Andrew

    Genin Andrew Guest

    Well the Sai (two sided "fork" style) were traditional to Okinawa but were used all over Japan as a farming tool. Okinawan karate schools have mastered the use of Sai and it has become a traditional weapon specific to Karate. However as we know, many Ninja were farmers and would have used the Sai and i'm sure that fighting techniques would have been developed to turn the tool into a weapon (just like the kama).

    My belief though, is that the reason they are not commonly referred to today as "ninja" weapons is because the Ninja had so many better options at their disposal. The Bo staffs for example werent at first seen as weapons by locals so the ninja could get away with strolling around with their bo just as they could with a shinai (concealed sword in cane/staff). But not with Sai, it would be like you cruising down to the shops with an axe.

    For espionage,raids and recconaisance a sword or a bo would have been more effective than two sai, arguably. It would have been a last resort style of weapon, when there werent enough swords or in a spontaneous fight there were sai lying around. So if the people of Okinawa could use the Sai in combat i'm sure the Ninja did,some warriors may have favoured the sai over all other weapons.

    Dont want to use hollywood as a historical resource lol, but the ninja in The Last Samurai did a good job using Sai and made them look very effective. Yes "Raphael" of the ninja turtles did use Sai, but then again Michaelangelo used nuchaku lol,and their was a giant rat :idunno: . Sai are practiced at Ninjukai, we class it as a traditional weapon. I think it would be a little foolish to say that the Sai were never used by Ninja. Its just one of those things i dont like to scrub from the board without significant evidence that cancels out the possibility. Hope this is of some help.

    much respect
    -andrew
     
  6. AnimEdge

    AnimEdge Guest

    I know a guy in mine who loves his sai :p though not many have it in our class so we rarly practice it

    My Fav. Ninja weapon, im not sure of, i wish i knew more techinques with the Tonfa, but i like the Nunchaku :p there fun to play with and hurt when you get hit by one and they tack relative skill do learn one, its one of those easy to learn hard to master things and you can do a lot of short staff technigues with them so i think i woudl use those or a gun :p
     
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  7. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    Really? Cuz you didnt mention where specifically. I dont have Dux Mind Reading down as a Science yet... help me along, where do you mean?

    Oh wait... is Dux the super secret ninja word we are not allowed to say?

    Ahem...

    As far as flexible weapons go, Sojobow... I thought flexible weapons would be tough, but I found the truth to be that it is easy and effective to use one IF you know how to use your body effectively. As one student to another, My suggestion is start with the basics before trying to invent "Vaccum Cleaner Ryu" and you will see how easy and adaptable they actually are.
     
  8. BoneBreaker

    BoneBreaker Guest

    Technopunk as one student to another :asian:

    Hos do you practice this adaptability of "flexible weapons" thus learning how to use your body so effectively. One would be led to believe you run around actually fighting with them, or you possibly go to the gathering of the pack every year and fight with the Dog Brothers to find this truth you speak of? Or possibly do you simply "practice nunchaku moves" and chat about it on forums while insulting Sojobow ? At least he is discussing and not mocking without you even saying a useful word on alot of these posts.

    In regards to the post. I have found through experience that the human body with proper conditioning and guts can withstand quite alot of punishment in a real situation and for the grappling aspect of "real fighting" I would prefer a stick to nunchaku or especially dual nunchaku anyday. :partyon:
     
  9. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    ?

    And you've had how many days/months of training with this weapon? I usually don't let beginners anywhere near me while they are holding a weapon let alone listen to one telling me how to train with them. Drop the personal junk like "Vaccum Cleaner Ryu."
     
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  10. Genin Andrew

    Genin Andrew Guest

    Bonebreaker, take this lightheartedly as that is the way this is intended to be taken.

    Unfortunately, without you knowing you have become the typical stereotype "newbie" who jumps into the thread and sheds words of wisdom and tries to seperate the children from fighting. And as i did when i first started posting i thought alot of the talk that goes on is pathetic. I know you dont mean to sound the way you do but you do sound as though you are putting people into their place (techno) without yet having your own place.

    I suggest you do what i did, go through the ninjutsu threads,all of interest and try to get an idea of the personalities and history of some people before judging them, try and see why some people talk the way they do now and understand a little of the history between people and topics. We all know alot of the bickering is patheitc and foolish (especcially on the internet) but we are humans,and humans are generally foolish and make many mistakes and all bickering and "conflict" happens for a reason.

    So try to understand some of the reasons before passing judement. I'm sure you'll see that Technopunk is a valuable member to the board and has said many useful things as well as ussually being one of the first to post and help people out.

    Just a little advice:)

    much respect
    -andrew
     
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  11. AaronLucia

    AaronLucia Guest

    Ok..so back to Ninja weapons...just like i thought with the Sai, i wasn't under the impression the nunchaku were 'Ninja' weapons...but i could be wrong..
     
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  12. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    Although I am sure your question was asked as a thinly disguised insult, here is my answer... Weapon skills come from adaptability and movement. If your taijutsu is good and you understand the "traits" of a weapon, along with its "weakness" you develop a better understanding of how a weapon works. No... I do not "Run around" fighting with them... but I spend time with the weapons I am learning, striking, cutiing, swinging, blah blah and looking at how they move in relation to my Taijutsu. When I approach training with a weapon I don't go... "Oh cool! I have a stick I can hit you!" I look at it from the perspective of If my body moves this way, in order to use this weapons "advantages and not its weaknesses, I need to move it that way". By doing so, I believe you develop a more flexible mindset that does not limit your understaning of a couple of techniques that you learn repetitive kata for, but give you more adapatbility in a real fight.

    Also, as far your comments about me being a beginner... I may have a "lower rank" being 6th kyu, but I have more time in my art than most 2nd Dan blackbelts in arts like TKD or Karate. We dont hand out Blackbelts in 1-2 years... does that make me a beginner, or just lower ranked? :idunno: but whatever... I AM just a student, not a master. Will be till the day I die, regardless of what color belt I wear.
     
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  13. BoneBreaker

    BoneBreaker Guest

    Point taken :asian:
     
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  14. BoneBreaker

    BoneBreaker Guest

    Be sure of your action, Intent is always assumed or implied. I offer an apology. :asian:
     
  15. AnimEdge

    AnimEdge Guest

    I conseder any weapon a ninja weapon :p
     
  16. Genin Andrew

    Genin Andrew Guest

    Correct AaronLucia,

    The Nunchaku is not a traditional Ninja weapon, it is specific to Karate.
    Traditional ninjutsu (Bujinkan,Genbukan,Jinenkan) do not practice Nunchaku from what i know. In Ninjukai Taijutsu nunchaku are not practiced either, many Karate schools do and that is where the tradiional techniques lie.

    But in a more open minded sense, who's to say that the Ninja never used nunchaku? not me. As AnimEdge said, anything is potentially a Ninja weapon. That should be a focus of all weapon training (in Ninja arts). But if you're after historical accuracy and Tradition, the Nunchaku were/are not specific to Ninjutsu.

    much respect
    -andrew
     
  17. Cryozombie

    Cryozombie Grandmaster

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    I have chucks. We dont train with them, but I consider them a flexible weapon, and put them in the same class as my Kusarifundo.
     
  18. sojobow

    sojobow Purple Belt

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    (1) But the ingrained proposition is that we are dealing with modern ninjitsu ryuha and not Traditional Ninjutsu eg., x-kans. So, though your statement is correct in relation to Traditional Ryu-ha, does not apply to modern schools of Ninjitsu. In a modern school, any weapon in existance at a particular time, is noted. Thus, since the Nunchakau does exist; is considered a weapon (regardless of its effectiveness or ineffectiveness) it is studied in this modern world.

    (2) When you (and others) state that a certain weapon is not a traditional weapon, what are you implying? Are you saying that the Founder of a particular school did not incorporate the weapon (Ninchukes) in his particular school so we don't recognize it today. Are you saying that no Ninja at that particular time (you name the time) used or studied the weapon?...Are you saying that there was NEVER a Ninja school that incorporated this weapon in its curriculum?

    Is there a way this statement can be written that makes a little more sense? Are you saying that: only because some other system (Karate) invented the weapon specified thus its not specific to Ninjutsu and only weapons invented by the Ninjutsu Ryu will be considered a Traditional Weapon?

    much respect
     
  19. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    By this logic, we can call the 3-sectional staff a "ninja weapon" because China is relatively close to Japan, and we cannot prove a negative. :rolleyes:
    Odds are, if any ninjutsu ryu did use weapons such as nunchaku, they would have developed kata to teach their use, much like in the Bujinkan, we have kata for (among others) naginata, katana, hanbo, and bo.

    Jeff
     
  20. AaronLucia

    AaronLucia Guest

    What Ryu did the Ninja Turtles train in? :)

    I bet Splinter was Soke of the Rat Ryu. ;)

    Anyways, we all know a Ninja would use ANY weapon at his disposal, i just have never seen any actual training with them from the 'Ninja' crowd.

    Does anyone know what Ninja Ryu might have used them with kata, etc?
     

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