Ninja history??

[Bujingodai]

Where can I obtain a copy of that Ninpo:wisdom for life. book? That won't cost an arm and a leg. I won't buy of of RVD site for that reason. Any sites in Canada?

Jay, I really learn from what you have to post man. Keep it up. I wish I had you on my board.

 

[heretic888]

Where can I obtain a copy of that Ninpo:wisdom for life. book? That won't cost an arm and a leg. I won't buy of of RVD site for that reason. Any sites in Canada?

Hmmm..... I believe Borders has the book available for a very reasonable price. That's where I plan on getting it. Just gotta wait the two months it will take to get to the local store.

Jay, I really learn from what you have to post man. Keep it up. I wish I had you on my board.

Ditto.

 

[Jay Bell]

Also, what of Hakuun ryu Ninjutsu??

I don't have a clue


Here's the link to order it straight from Joe:

Ninpo: Wisdom for Life

I appreciate the kind words, guys. Means a lot

 

[heretic888]

I don't have a clue

Ok. No problem.

I appreciate the kind words, guys. Means a lot

No problem, Jay.

By the way, you never answered my question before (at least, I don't think you did): how would you on a personal level describe the so-called 'spiritual' or 'esoteric' side(s) of Ninpo??

Thanks. Laterz.

 

[Jay Bell]

By the way, you never answered my question before (at least, I don't think you did): how would you on a personal level describe the so-called 'spiritual' or 'esoteric' side(s) of Ninpo??

Hrm...this is just my take on things...so please don't take it for more then that..

But from my experiances, the ties to Nature and the heavens seem to be foremost. Interweaving yourself into nature and all things in it...things of that nature. Becoming "zero"....in line with all things in nature so there is no seperation.

As far as labeling things...beyond pointing the finger to Buddhism, I'm not sure if that answers your question or not?

 

[heretic888]

My, this discussion is so much more fulfilling than the ninjer bashing that usually goes on around here (as amusing as that is).

Hrm...this is just my take on things...so please don't take it for more then that..

Understood.

But from my experiances, the ties to Nature and the heavens seem to be foremost. Interweaving yourself into nature and all things in it...things of that nature. Becoming "zero"....in line with all things in nature so there is no seperation.

I see. Very interesting indeed. It is also intriguing to note that you capitalized 'Nature' there.

Tell me, do you believe this state of 'zero' is simply a result of proper Taijutsu?? Or, are there specific meditations or practices for attaining this state??

As far as labeling things...beyond pointing the finger to Buddhism, I'm not sure if that answers your question or not?

Yes, it does. More or less. I wasn't really interested in labelling the 'spirituality' or 'esotericism' of Ninpo, but based on your description the ties to Buddhism are rather obvious. Then again, as an enthusiast of Ken Wilber's writings, I am of the opinion that all great 'spiritual' traditions share a core of truth.

Well, thanks for the information. Laterz.

 

[Jay Bell]

Tell me, do you believe this state of 'zero' is simply a result of proper Taijutsu?? Or, are there specific meditations or practices for attaining this state??

Yes...and yes

During the Gassho of Gyokko ryu, there are things mentally that one works on with blending with nature and things that are happening. It begins as a very "implanted" mental idea and feeling...much like most meditative ideas. Eventually...the feeling comes through and there you are.

Each of the Gassho has a specific purpose and outcome.

 

[heretic888]

Yes...and yes

Oh?? And these meditations are different from the kuji goshin ho that Hayes showed in his publications?? If so, what are they?? Sitting, Zen-style exercises?? Moving, Tai Chi-type exercises?? Chi kung-type exercises focusing on the breath?? Mikkyo-style mudra/mantra??

I don't mean to barrage you with questions there, Jay...

During the Gassho of Gyokko ryu, there are things mentally that one works on with blending with nature and things that are happening. It begins as a very "implanted" mental idea and feeling...much like most meditative ideas. Eventually...the feeling comes through and there you are.

Hmmm.... so, basically, what you're saying is that each of the Gassho of the Gyokko/Koto schools there is both a short term effect and a gradually developing long term effect??

Laterz.

 

[Jay Bell]

Oh?? And these meditations are different from the kuji goshin ho that Hayes showed in his publications?? If so, what are they?? Sitting, Zen-style exercises?? Moving, Tai Chi-type exercises?? Chi kung-type exercises focusing on the breath?? Mikkyo-style mudra/mantra??

WHOA haha...

Yes...different of the Kuji Goshin Ho that Mr. Hayes showed in his books. In fact, he's stated that he altered the kuji in the book from how they are realistically done so that people wouldn't play with what they didn't understand.

Zen-style? Shinden Fudo ryu has something like this. Moving Tai Chi exercises...That would be similar to Sanshin no Kata.

Hmmm.... so, basically, what you're saying is that each of the Gassho of the Gyokko/Koto schools there is both a short term effect and a gradually developing long term effect??

Exactly

 

[heretic888]

WHOA haha...

Yes...different of the Kuji Goshin Ho that Mr. Hayes showed in his books. In fact, he's stated that he altered the kuji in the book from how they are realistically done so that people wouldn't play with what they didn't understand.

Hmmm.... that is very intriguing. Makes one wonder how much else has been 'altered', neh?

Well, if Hayes' presentation of the kuji and juji in his publications is inaccurate, would you be willing to elaborate upon what they are really like (without betraying any mysterious 'ninja secrets', of course )??? I'm not asking for a step-by-step how-to here, just a generic outline and basic description of how these things are done in Ninpo in your personal experience.

Zen-style? Shinden Fudo ryu has something like this. Moving Tai Chi exercises...That would be similar to Sanshin no Kata.

Hmmph. Sounds like Ninpo's got a bit of everything, neh?

Exactly

Ok, thanks.

Talk to yah laterz.

 

[heretic888]

Heh, looks like all my questions scared Jay off.

Laterz, guys.

 

[Deaf]

I don't think you scared him off. Jay is probably busy with life.

 

[Jay Bell]

*chuckle* I've actually been trying to dig up the pics of the Gyokko ryu gassho...but can't seem to locate them anywhere. Give me some more time and I'll see what I can come up with for you.

 

[heretic888]

I don't think you scared him off. Jay is probably busy with life.

Well, at least that makes one of us.

*chuckle* I've actually been trying to dig up the pics of the Gyokko ryu gassho...but can't seem to locate them anywhere. Give me some more time and I'll see what I can come up with for you.

Heh. Ok, thanks. :asian:

Happy huntin', y'all.

 

[heretic888]

This thread is just too damn interesting to just let it die out....

 

[heretic888]

Ahem, well, anyways....

Jay, you mentioned Gyokko-ryu a lot in this discussion. Does most of the philosophy and approach to "spirituality" in Bujinkan Ninpo come from that particular school, in your opinion??

 

[Jay Bell]

Hrm...I would say in my experiances and training, most of the spirituality stems from Gyokko ryu and Koto ryu

 

[heretic888]

Speaking of Gyokko ryu, what is your take on the Sanshin no Kata (or Ki no Kata as it is sometimes called) in relation to Hayes' system of the Godai?? Do you think Hayes was just way off in this matter?? Or do you think there is some kind of relationship??

Laterz.

 

[Jay Bell]

Speaking of Gyokko ryu, what is your take on the Sanshin no Kata (or Ki no Kata as it is sometimes called) in relation to Hayes' system of the Godai?? Do you think Hayes was just way off in this matter?? Or do you think there is some kind of relationship??

Yes

 

[r erman]

Originally posted by Technopunk


I have read occasionaly (and heard from other Bujinkan instructors) that many of the things Shidoshi Hayes wrote were embellished and/or made up, such as the "golf course" incident in His book "Ninja and their Secret Fighting Art"

I know this is so two pages ago, but I thought I'd say that a very high-ranking american Genbukan Instructor told me that Tanemura had actually validated this story(golf course training) when I mentioned to him a quote from a japanese shihan saying he must have missed training that day. He also mentioned that Tanemura often taught inton and more of the 'sneaky' stuff to his students when he was still in the booj.

Also, I think Jay is right in that Hayes pieced some of his earlier info together from different sources, some of his earlier suppositions are not borne out by research, but then some are(i.e. the strong link between ninja, shugendo, and yamabushi). I think the largest piece of misinfo may have been the strong demarcation between the ninja and the samurai, as separate classes...

All in all, I can agree that there is a strong commercial slant to what SKH now does that doesn't sit well with me, but his teaching method and movement is still well above par compared to what other american 'shihan' are doing.