New Aikido invented for self-defence by Ljubomir Vračarević

Tez3

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So hitting cannot be the main factor regarding arm lock success.

That sentence still doesn't make any sense. who's supposed to be hitting who? Is anyone hitting anyone? What do you mean?


Ronda rousey finished her fight in the first round. At top level competition.

You've missed my point...again. I said a promoter doesn't want all the fights finishing in the first round, that one fight on the card finished in the first round is neither here nor there. It also doesn't mean that the promoter was pleased it finished in the first round, I doubt they were. It changes all the timing right though the card, either you bring the next fight forward risking the fighters saying they aren't ready yet or you have an interval where you didn't plan one and risk a crowd becoming restless. The fans of a particular fighter ie Rousey might be pleased she finished it in the first round but promoters find it annoying.
 

drop bear

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That sentence still doesn't make any sense. who's supposed to be hitting who? Is anyone hitting anyone? What do you mean?




You've missed my point...again. I said a promoter doesn't want all the fights finishing in the first round, that one fight on the card finished in the first round is neither here nor there. It also doesn't mean that the promoter was pleased it finished in the first round, I doubt they were. It changes all the timing right though the card, either you bring the next fight forward risking the fighters saying they aren't ready yet or you have an interval where you didn't plan one and risk a crowd becoming restless. The fans of a particular fighter ie Rousey might be pleased she finished it in the first round but promoters find it annoying.

And so you think fighters are not employing every method at their disposal to finish that fight if they can because they are concerned about the feelings of the promoter.

And then we are linking this to the idea that akido is so effective that it would finish fights just too early for mma to continue to be a spectator sport.
 

Drose427

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And so you think fighters are not employing every method at their disposal to finish that fight if they can because they are concerned about the feelings of the promoter.

And then we are linking this to the idea that akido is so effective that it would finish fights just too early for mma to continue to be a spectator sport.

Well fighters are paid to entertain, i mean they get a bonus for being more entertaining in the cage.

Why do you think some fighters act the way they do? Like macgregor?

Rouseys last fight isnt a great example of your point. She wasn't going for a specific tech, they were just scrambling and they rolled and fell into that position...

Fighters make less in bonuses if they end it in the first minute than they would ending it in the last minute.

While they may not care about the promoters feelings, (although they should since UFC is laying their checks) they have the same goal of giving a show.
 

Tez3

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And so you think fighters are not employing every method at their disposal to finish that fight if they can because they are concerned about the feelings of the promoter.

And then we are linking this to the idea that akido is so effective that it would finish fights just too early for mma to continue to be a spectator sport.


Fighters often have priorities that are at variance with those of the promoters. I can't see what 'feelings' have to do with anything, fight promotions are business, we are talking about money and fighters, if they want fights will listen to what the promoters want. Feelings don't come into it, what a bizarre idea!

I don't know what 'you' are linking to what, but I don't use the royal 'we' when discussing anything.
 

drop bear

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Fighters often have priorities that are at variance with those of the promoters. I can't see what 'feelings' have to do with anything, fight promotions are business, we are talking about money and fighters, if they want fights will listen to what the promoters want. Feelings don't come into it, what a bizarre idea!

I don't know what 'you' are linking to what, but I don't use the royal 'we' when discussing anything.

You are talking about fixing fights. If a promoter is forcing a fighter to extend the fight intentionally that is immoral and illegal.

I know our local promoter does nothing to influence the length of a fight.
 

Drose427

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You are talking about fixing fights. If a promoter is forcing a fighter to extend the fight intentionally that is immoral and illegal.

I know our local promoter does nothing to influence the length of a fight.

No, fighters aren't being told to dive. They're not forced either. They can end the fight in .5. They just forfeit entertainment and technique bonuses.
 

drop bear

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No, fighters aren't being told to dive. They're not forced either. They can end the fight in .5. They just forfeit entertainment and technique bonuses.

Ok. The way to professionally make sure that a fight goes the distance is to make sure that the fighters are evenly matched.
 

Tez3

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You are talking about fixing fights. If a promoter is forcing a fighter to extend the fight intentionally that is immoral and illegal.

I know our local promoter does nothing to influence the length of a fight.


For crying out loud, do you understand nothing of what is written? NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FIXING FIGHTS.
I said nothing about a promoter forcing any fighter to extend a fight, I'm saying that promoters aren't too happy when a fight finishes early. Think about it because I have already explained but will do so again. When fights finish early it changes the running order of the card, when a fight finishes early we are faced with bringing the next on the card in early or having an unscheduled interval. There are problems in either but it's all in the game. A fight could last longer than we'd like because of injury that doesn't meant we fix anything. Not being too happy about something is not the same as trying to fix fights besides we use reputable and honest refs who would most certainly not be amenable to fight fixing. You have some very odd ideas about what is meant when someone writes something. I really do think you must misunderstand just so you can make outrageous statements... which is trolling.
 

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Ok. The way to professionally make sure that a fight goes the distance is to make sure that the fighters are evenly matched.

You'd think, but the card doesn't always end up that way does it?
 

drop bear

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For crying out loud, do you understand nothing of what is written? NO I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FIXING FIGHTS.
I said nothing about a promoter forcing any fighter to extend a fight, I'm saying that promoters aren't too happy when a fight finishes early. Think about it because I have already explained but will do so again. When fights finish early it changes the running order of the card, when a fight finishes early we are faced with bringing the next on the card in early or having an unscheduled interval. There are problems in either but it's all in the game. A fight could last longer than we'd like because of injury that doesn't meant we fix anything. Not being too happy about something is not the same as trying to fix fights besides we use reputable and honest refs who would most certainly not be amenable to fight fixing. You have some very odd ideas about what is meant when someone writes something. I really do think you must misunderstand just so you can make outrageous statements... which is trolling.

look seriously tez. You are making no sense.
UFC 178 Post-Fight Bonus Report - Ultimate Fighting Championship-Mobile
just randomly pulled up. Here are fight bonuses paid to fighters who had first round wins.

so the ufc isn't upset that fights are finishing early.
 

Tez3

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Ok. The way to professionally make sure that a fight goes the distance is to make sure that the fighters are evenly matched.


Well DUR. That's my original point, that promoters will match for the optimum fight, one that is entertaining, lasts the distance and gives an unambiguous result. That's Plan A, it won't always work that way of course but that's promoting. And that's why a pure Aikidoka won't be invited to fight anytime soon, nor any purists to be honest. People want to see certain things when they go to an MMA fight show. It's no disrespect to Aikido when I say that in it's pure form it's not 'entertaining'.
 

Tez3

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look seriously tez. You are making no sense.
UFC 178 Post-Fight Bonus Report - Ultimate Fighting Championship-Mobile
just randomly pulled up. Here are fight bonuses paid to fighters who had first round wins.

so the ufc isn't upset that fights are finishing early.


Well of course the UFC is the be all and end all of MMA isn't it? What happens there is what happens everywhere...well no actually it's not. You can be sure that whoever is directing the fight night at the UFC, on the night is rushing around to re arrange things when a fight finishes early, it's nothing to do with whether the UFC is 'happy' or not. A couple of early fight finishes if they are entertaining enough is fine, but even the UFC wouldn't be happy if everyone of the fights on a card finished early nor would the fans. If you've paid over £75 for a tickets and every fight finished in the first minute of the first round I can tell you... you would be unhappy.

You also have to understand there is the fighters and coaches point of view where the ideal is to finish the fight early and there's the promoters point of view where they want fights to go the distance or very nearly. The UFC's ideal is to sell a lot of tickets and merchandise, that's what it is about.
 

Tez3

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That is on the poor performance of the promoter.


No, it isn't. Again you are showing that you don't know what you are talking about.

We had a young fighter, he was matched again Phil 'Billy' Harris, on paper Phil was the favourite, experienced, good Judo and striking, older more experience ( he went on to go into the UFC) our lad KO'd him with a flying knee in the first couple of minutes of the first round. We couldn't have guessed that would happen, it shouldn't have really but it did. As coaches it was brilliant, as promoters we had to fill some twenty minutes of 'spare' time.

Look down to where he fought David Smyth Phil Billy Harris MMA Stats Pictures News Videos Biography - Sherdog.com

Now perhaps we could get back to the OP?
 
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drop bear

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Well of course the UFC is the be all and end all of MMA isn't it? What happens there is what happens everywhere...well no actually it's not. You can be sure that whoever is directing the fight night at the UFC, on the night is rushing around to re arrange things when a fight finishes early, it's nothing to do with whether the UFC is 'happy' or not. A couple of early fight finishes if they are entertaining enough is fine, but even the UFC wouldn't be happy if everyone of the fights on a card finished early nor would the fans. If you've paid over £75 for a tickets and every fight finished in the first minute of the first round I can tell you... you would be unhappy.

You also have to understand there is the fighters and coaches point of view where the ideal is to finish the fight early and there's the promoters point of view where they want fights to go the distance or very nearly. The UFC's ideal is to sell a lot of tickets and merchandise, that's what it is about.

The ufc is a pretty good example of what you are suggesting is not normal.

My counter theory will be at this stage is that if akido could finish fights early we would see more of it. Either by fighters who want to guarantee a win rather than look for a bonus or by fighters in the last round looking to end the fight. And yet you still don't see aikido.
 

drop bear

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No, it isn't. Again you are showing that you don't know what you are talking about.

We had a young fighter, he was matched again Phil 'Billy' Harris, on paper Phil was the favourite, experienced, good Judo and striking, older more experience ( he went on to go into the UFC) our lad KO'd him with a flying knee in the first couple of minutes of the first round. We couldn't have guessed that would happen, it shouldn't have really but it did. As coaches it was brilliant, as promoters we had to fill some twenty minutes of 'spare' time.

Look down to where he fought David Smyth Phil Billy Harris MMA Stats Pictures News Videos Biography - Sherdog.com

Now perhaps we could get back to the OP?

No fair enough that is s a legitimate factor.
 

jks9199

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Ladies & Gentlemen,

I'm puzzled about what MMA card design and show running has to do with a new version of aikido.

Perhaps we can return to discussing the version of aikido demonstrated in the original post? Or would you rather collect penalty points? That option can certainly be arranged. I trust I'm not being too obscure? I can count on at least one RTM a day about MMA topics taking over threads, and I'm done with it.

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please return to the original topic.

jks9199
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Tez3

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My fault it went to MMA card, I was trying to point out that Aikido in it's pure form wouldn't be suitable for MMA as it wasn't entertaining enough for promoters and it was not as some said because Aikido didn't work. Mea culpa. However I didn't bring up MMA in the first place.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Drop Bear,

Regardless of your opinion they work very well when the opponent is struck. Though that is just one factor in any application. (other factors like timing, distancing, angles, etc. all play a part as well) Just because a competition allows hitting has no bearing on them working outside of competition in a real world application. They work and I personally do not know a person working in corrections, law enforcement, as a doorman, etc. that has not utilized a come a long technique, standing armbar, wrist control, etc. However, they are a harder skill to apply based on positional leverage with people standing up rather than braced on the ground or against a wall etc. That is why they work better when people are fuzzy from being struck.

Rory Miller had a DVD out on Joint Locks that he utilized during his extensive career in corrections:

Since you work as a doorman maybe you need some extra work in this area.

Here is a very basic joint manipulation turned into a standing armbar and used brutally in a mma competition:

Listen, we both watch mma, spar, and I have produced fighters that have been very successful in the ring. (one even holds two amature title belts at the moment) You work on a door and I have past experience in a law enforcement position. (plus I grew up south of Flint and lived in Detroit two very dangerous places you may have heard of) I have seen real world violence and yes some times it does look exactly like it does in the cage but other times it is drastically and dramatically different. One of the worst things anyone can do as a martial practitioner is to be short sighted and try and fit everything into one little box. MMA is in general an awesome form of training but certainly not the end all be all in the martial world. If I had to have someone at my back in a life or death situation I would want their training to be predominantly Weapons first and empty hands secondary. When I speak of weapons I mean firearms, edge and blunt tools specifically. Plus I would like them to have experience!

Saying all of the above good Aikido when performed correctly is devastating! You just have to look at what it was designed for to see how the principles and applications work. Primarily it is a receiving and countering system that lends itself to being very effective when someone tries to grab you, etc. While I do not train in Aikido I actually know several practitioner's who have used their skill sets during work. They are very, very happy with their Aikido training and the results accomplished and they train to this day. Try and broaden your perspective and look at systems other than mma with an open mind.
 

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