Need some information on Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

[Kframe]

HI guys, I'm hoping I can get some advice. Its soon coming up to the time when I will be full time training. I have been practicing my forward rolls and my san shin and the punch drill. I still cant do the koho kaiten. I'm concerned because I was reading about the ten chi jin ryaku no maki and some of the things I may have to look forward to in the future. I'm concerned about the apparent acrobatic nature of this art.

As some of you know im on a weight loss journey. I'm currently 330lbs having started at 420lbs. I'm in the best physical shape of my life, thanks to the cardio I have built up over many mma conditioning and sparring workouts. I was never able to do a Oten in high school when I was much thinner and a foot ball player.. I concerned that ill not be able to do the more advanced rolls like Yoko kaiten or the oten and the other acrobatic things.

I could put off the martial arts for a year and focus on the intense group excercises at the Y, or continue with my path and do my power yoga and spin class on off days..

I maybe thinking to far ahead, but I cant help it. My OCD is my worst enemy.

Thanks for any advice guys.

Which would mean I wont be getting the full experience. Im working out as much as I can at the YMCA but the weight is coming off painfully slow. Tempted to switch back to Atkins, but that didn't work out well when I started mma..

 

[jks9199]

As to diet -- no MD, can't advise.

As to training... Trust your instructors. They'll get you through, and help you find ways to do what you need to.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Just train and everything will work out. As to the acrobatic nature of this system. It is not that much and you will be fine. Bottom line just train and enjoy it!

 

[Kframe]

LOL over on Traditional fighting arts, Dan posted this link. http://dandjurdjevic.blogspot.com/2011/10/standing-start-drills-whats-wrong-with.html He used it to sum up his dislike of Ninjutsu(budo taijutsu for me) saying that it was a entire art of zombie standing start drills. Honestly what is surprisingly infuriating about this, is he and the others on that forum are using the same tactics that MMA guys use against karate all the time. I told them I thought they were being hypocritical.

He either doesn't know or wont accept how Traditional Japanese kata is performed. Chris Parker is correct, he is basically denigrating every Koryu art out there?! I just don't understand why he doesn't just do some research in to how and why they do what they do.

He also still is failing to understand that kata is not the same thing as scenario response training.(which Brian R CanCise mentioned was used for pressure testing, in some places)

Honestly it is a reflection of my self. I remember arguing with CP over stuff like this, when in reality I didn't(still don't) know anything about what I was trying to argue about.
I guess there is a reason I like MT so much.

 

[Chris Parker]

Ha, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure that many modern practitioners have much idea of kata training, so Dan's really not alone there. On that note, I've written a series of posts on my school facebook page about this topic, so might share them here:

Learning To Fight, or Just Choreography? What is Kata?

Over the years I've had a large number of conversations about exactly what our training methods are... and why certain other methods aren't employed as part of our standard approach. Over the next few weeks I'm going to see if I can explain how many traditional arts (including ours) train... and answer a few questions as we go. If there are any queries that come up, feel free to put them in the comments.

So, with that said, the first part is to look at what our primary training method is...

The primary for of training in many traditional arts is known as kata (&#22411. And, although it is a very common form of training, I find that it is also one of the most misunderstood training practices in martial arts today. Kata, simply put, is a pre-arranged form, or series of movements (the term itself simply means "form, or shape"). In Chinese-derived systems, including Karate (and it's offshoots, such as TaeKwonDo), it is often a solo exercise... and, in Japanese arts, it is more commonly a paired form (with a few exceptions, such as sword drawing [Iaijutsu], archery [Kyujutsu], and so on being solo methods). In the solo forms, such as Karate, it can appear as simply a string of movements, almost randomly arranged, which can lead to questions over exactly what the actions are meant to do. In Japanese paired forms, it's easier to see the "applications", as there is a partner representing the opponent, attacking in many cases, to prompt the response from the student... but despite this apparent difference, the forms of kata are really the same.

The important thing to remember is that kata are not about teaching techniques. They are not there to teach you how to perform a particular throw, or strike, or block. Such techniques are applied within the kata, but in reality, the student should already have learnt the techniques before they learn the kata. The problem is that many see kata as teaching technique... including many instructors. Which means they've missed the reality that kata is teaching.

Kata is designed to teach tactics and strategy first and foremost. What does that mean? Well, in simple terms, it means that you get taught how to set up particular action, or series of actions, rather than thinking of techniques in isolation. Point A leads to Point B, and so on. In other words, kata teaches not only the "how", but the "when" and "why" of the techniques.

So no matter if you train in a Japanese (paired) form, or a solo version of kata, to understand it, take a look at what the sequence is... and why it's done that way. The next post will deal with the differences between kata and sparring... and which is more realistic.

"But... Do You Spar?" (Kata Training Part II)

As the majority of our training methods (along with many, indeed, most other traditional Japanese martial arts) are Kata (pre-arranged training techniques, in our case, being paired exercises with an attacking and defending partner), I am often asked by prospective students whether or not we spar... And my answer is not always one that is understood.

In short, my answer is "No, we don't". But, what is more important than understanding what we do (or don't do), is understanding why... and, in many cases, I feel that this point is missed by those asking. They ask if we spar simply because they expect that it should be present... due to movies, television, and the rise/prevalence of sporting martial arts (Judo, Karate, Taekwondo, BJJ, even MMA). So why do we not spar, when it's used to great effect by these systems? Well, to be honest, it's because it's just not realistic enough... and therefore doesn't suit our goals.

"Not realistic? But it's real fighting!". Sorry, no, it isn't. It's competition, and good training for competition. In sparring, you are matched up against someone with similar skills (even if not of a similar level), in a situation where you are aware of the opponent, and both of you are actively pursuing the same outcome (apply your techniques without letting the opponent apply theirs). This is actually pretty much the opposite of a real encounter... especially a modern assault. In a real encounter, the skill-set (distinct from the skill level) is unknown... they might be a striker or a kicker... or, more importantly, they may be armed with one or more weapons... they might have friends... and the attack is often an ambush, rather than announced from a distance.

But what makes kata training more realistic, then? Well, kata is an analogue (in many cases) of actual violence. Yes, it's idealized in terms of the technique "working" for the defending side, but the reality of the way kata is trained should ensure that the practitioner only applies the technique in a safe and efficient (and effective) manner... if the kata technique is applied without such considerations, it's not the kata, nor is it proper training of such. In fact, kata training is often designed to be just one step (fraction) removed from actual combat... and that's the way it should be approached. The other major consideration is that kata teach you a particular approach to combat and combative situations... whereas sparring encourages you to simply make the best of what you can. Sparring can be far more random in generating skill than kata training... as kata training is all about developing skill in applying the strategies and tactics that have been found to work over many years.

So, do we spar? No. But that's not because there's anything wrong with sparring... it's highly effective if used for the right goals. It's just that our goals are far better suited by other training methods (which does, for the record, include free-form types of training)... and simply sparring for the sake of it goes against our (arts) philosophy of efficiency and effectiveness.

What Are You Trying To Do? The Role of Uke and Tori in Kata (Kata Training Part III)

For the purposes of this post, I will be discussing kata in a Japanese (paired) form.

As we've already seen, the purpose of kata training in traditional martial arts is focused on imparting particular lessons in a (relatively) safe and efficient manner. Each kata has at least two sides to it... an "attacking" side, and a "defensive" side (although these sometimes cross-over a fair bit)... with the "attack" often being a simpler mechanical action than the defense. Due to this seemingly more simplistic requirement, and to the more Western idea that the "winning" side (here, the defender) is the "better", there is a tendency to only think of the technique or kata being the defending side. Of course, to do so is to ignore half of the kata itself.

In different arts, there are different terms used for each side... Judo has "Tori" (Taker; the person performing the "winning" side, in effect "taking" the attack) and "Uke" (Receiver; the person who has the technique performed on them, often the attacking side)... many sword systems use "Shidachi" (Acting Sword) and "Uchidachi" (Striking Sword)... and some of the older (Koryu) arts use terms such as "Teki" (Enemy) and "Ware" (myself... meaning the one facing an enemy). But, no matter the terminology, one important thing to realize is that, in almost all traditional arts, the person on the attacking side ("Uke", "Uchidachi", or "Teki") is actually most often the more senior practitioner... or even the teacher themselves. If you watch the above video, in each kata, the individual who "loses" each time is actually the most senior instructor in the art... which tells us that the role of the attacker is a very important one.

I don't think it's a surprising thing to think that the defensive side of learning a kata is important... it contains the essential principles of the art. It teaches the tactics and strategies... the mechanics... the distancing and timing, targeting, weaponry used, and more. But it's impossible to get to those lessons without the attacker... and the attackers role is far more than just supplying a target, or body for the defender.

The role of the attacker is dominantly one of control. They are who is really in charge of the performance of the kata... they dictate it's pace and intensity... and, ideally, they have a higher skill level, and can react appropriately, or counter, should the technique go in an unexpected direction. If the defender reacts too fast, or too hard, it's the attackers job to slow them down... or simply stop them. And, the other side of it, is that the attacker is there to ensure the lessons of the kata are properly passed on. Only by attacking properly can the defender apply the defense properly. Ideally, the attack is placed at the limits of the defenders capabilities... putting enough pressure on it that the defenders skill "cracks". This is why kata is needed... especially in weapon training... as it's the only way to safely and realistically impart the lessons.

So, the next time you're training, and you're finding yourself on the "attackers" side... remember that your role there is to provide proper stimulus to your training partner (safely!)... but not to "go easy on them". Once the basic mechanics are learnt, kata provides you a way to test them... and the person in charge of that is the attacker. It's half the lesson... and shouldn't be ignored!

Keep The Pressure On: Seme and Kime (Kata Practice Part IV)

In this final commentary on kata practice, we will look at the proper way for both sides to be trained, again focusing on the Japanese form of paired kata, although we will also touch on the solo form found in karate and related arts. The last time we looked at the dual roles found in kata... the receiving side (Uke), and the taking side (Tori)... and how both sides work together for mutual benefit in training. This time, we will look at the way you should train... which takes place after the kata is "learnt".

The first stage is simply to learn the actions. But that really is just the first stage... and simply learning it isn't training it. For it to become training, it needs to have two important aspects... pressure, and focus... or, in Japanese, Seme and Kime.

Seme (pressure) is achieved by ensuring that the attacks are "real"... they are at a correct distance, to the proper target, and thrown with power (relative to the training partner, obviously). But that's just part of it... they also need to be performed in a way that forces the trainee to move at the very limits of their ability to perform the technique. Even if all the other aspects are correct, if the defending side can easily handle the attack, there's no seme.... no pressure... there should be an element of danger... or, as has been said by the 16th Dai-Shihan of Sosuishitsu Ryu Jujutsu, "kata should be done with an air of distrust". This pressure should also be maintained throughout the entire sequence... all the way to the end. If a particular hold, or lock doesn't "work", then the attacking partner should be able to escape or counter. If a throw doesn't unbalance the uke, they shouldn't be thrown. Pressure is the way to ensure that the kata work.

And, while training, the student needs to be able to focus (Kime) properly the entire time. This is related to Zanshin, of course, but can also be applied to any of a range of parts of the kata (timing, distancing, mindset), or simply ensuring that, even under the pressure applied by the Uke, the Tori's performance remains correct. The student needs to remain focused on what they're aiming to achieve with the kata... how do you enter? How do you take the opponent's balance? How do you ensure that your strike hits it's target?

But what if you train in an art where the kata are solo? Well, all the same ideas are necessary... but the "enemy" becomes a visualized one. There should still be the same sense of pressure... and focus is essential.

These two aspects (seme and kime) are probably the most important aspects of kata training... and should be given a great amount of thought.

 

[Kframe]

Nice articles CP. They actually shed a good deal of light on Traditional kata. I especially like the video. Im actually watching part two right now.

 

[Kframe]

Doubt creeping in.. As the countdown clock ticks ever closer to the time I am a official student(just got the last hurdle out of the way, next pay day im in) my mind is racing.

The reason for my doubt suddenly springing forward is what just happened in my living room. My wife is upstairs laying with our son getting him to sleep. Im down stairs with my daughter.(just turned 5) She was watching Cyber chase and during a commercial break came up to me and sat down on stool next to me. She looked at me and says "I don't wanna be fat like you daddy".

Needless to say im very hurt by this. Now the thought is creeping into my head that I need to not do a martial art this is lower paced. I know for a fact that the KKW tkd place would be 90 mins of *** whipping cardio(for me, kicking is tough on my muscles and cardio at least in mma it was) and *** whipping cardio plus learning good kicks is going to go along way to helping me loose weight. On top of my Keto diet that I am doing.(down under 330, closing in on the 3teens)

I am convinced, based on my own research and my experience that BBT is every bit as good as tkd as self defense martial art, perhaps better in some areas. I am just worried that, even during the more faster paced advanced class(for 9th and above) and the randori class will not be fast paced enough..

I feel like a *** for judging that lady at the ATA.

 

[jks9199]

Exercise and training are not the same thing. I could spend the entire training session whipping my students into physical specimens... but there'd be damn little time for actual training around the calisthenics and conditioning. Or I can encourage them to exercise on their own, offer suggestions for beneficial exercise, and focus training time on learning skills. Which can be a bit of a workout as we drill... but not a substitute for regular training.

Exercise for fitness and weight loss. Train for skills and ability. Let the two reinforce each other, rather than try to do the other's job.

 

[Tgace]

Exercise and training are not the same thing. I could spend the entire training session whipping my students into physical specimens... but there'd be damn little time for actual training around the calisthenics and conditioning. Or I can encourage them to exercise on their own, offer suggestions for beneficial exercise, and focus training time on learning skills. Which can be a bit of a workout as we drill... but not a substitute for regular training.

Exercise for fitness and weight loss. Train for skills and ability. Let the two reinforce each other, rather than try to do the other's job.

Exactly. Skill, conditioning and mindset is the "tripod". Take out a leg and it wont stand.

Military training is the same. PT, skills, mental conditioning to hardship.

For conditioning.....look into "metabolic conditioning". Straight cardio and lifting have a place, but the "combative" payoff you will get out of circuit style training (burpees, kettlebell, sprint, sled drag combos for example) cannot be ignored.

The "gut it out" factor plays into mindset as well. Both in pushing through hard workouts and enduring painful technique training.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kframe]

Well I do have YMCA membership. They do have a number of group classes. They list the circuit types as advanced, and its all HIIT stuff. Then there is the spin class and the Tight n tone class which is some kind of S & C class. Problems is most of them are at times I cant come.

Id have to give up yoga for the tnt class.

 

[gregtca]

Kramer , yep time is hard to fined , try this . http://www.bodyrock.tv,
Good luck , you'll need it ,

 

[Kframe]

I am not going to let a 5 year old get to me. I don't think she meant to be hurtfull. Though it does highlight the fact I need to step up my exercise more. JKS9199 has a point, exercise and training are not the same thing. Im going to stick to my plan of BBT and find a way to get to some more YMCA in.

 

[jks9199]

Doesn't have to be a class at the Y or anything like that. Go for a walk. I know people having great success with the Couch to 5K program, which is free. My Fitness Pal is a free phone app and website that can easily help you track your diet. (I need to get back on using it...) Here's a quick, butt-kicking circuit workout which doesn't require any equipment beyond a chair; there are plenty of others available with a quick web search.

 

[Tgace]

Doesn't have to be a class at the Y or anything like that. Go for a walk. I know people having great success with the Couch to 5K program, which is free. My Fitness Pal is a free phone app and website that can easily help you track your diet. (I need to get back on using it...) Here's a quick, butt-kicking circuit workout which doesn't require any equipment beyond a chair; there are plenty of others available with a quick web search.

Agreed. If you are not in the best shape right now, jumping into HIT Training right away may just scare you off and loose motivation. Build a base of fitness and work up...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Good advice. Make a gradual change by increasing your cardio slowly and studying BBT plus working on your diet. Slowly over time you will become more fit and drop the weight and you can gradually increase your cardio over the long haul.

 

[Kframe]

Well im not totally new to cardio. I was doing mma and mma conditioning until a few months ago when my gym closed. I have been riding 14 miles twice a week since then.

Thank you for the advice guys. I Keep you updated on my progress.

 

[Taifuugan]

Kframe, I have read all your posts and have some advise. Just train. Don't listen to the naysayers, or those that say this is better than that, or that, or that. If you listen to these things, you will develop a there that will look better than here, and thus another new beginning. I have been training in BBT since April 1993. I had my forays with other MA's but they did not fit me. I just took my godan test and passed, yet there are those whom I helped pass their 9th kyu test that are now 9th dans. It is not about ego. I have not been in a hurry to get anywhere, there is no there. only here.

As for your weight, I have met many people with weight that have positively handed me my tail. Don't worry about it. Just train. If it bothers you go to the ymca. But don't allow it to become a roadblock. Ask your teacher the meaning of Gambatte, and stick to that.

As for the roll you are having trouble with. It sounds like you are leaving the extended leg sticking out and slowing down any hope of rotation. pull your chin in, and pull your leg in. you will get it in time.

Good Luck,

Chris