My Grandfather's Son - Associate Justice of the Supreme Court - Clarence Thomas

[michaeledward]

A new book is scheduled for release this week by Justice Thomas of the Supreme Court. This article gives a preview. Mr. Thomas will be on several of the regular news programs over the next few days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2007/09/29/ST2007092900506.html?hpid=topnews

Thomas writes of the hard lessons doled out by his grandfather, Myers Anderson, who raised him after his father abandoned the family and his mother was unable to care for her boys in Pin Point, Ga. "In every way that counts, I am my grandfather's son," Thomas writes, hence the title of the memoir.

I have several thoughts based on this article ... for now, let me just say that Mr. Thomas appears to not understand or appreciate his position. Literally, he is one of the most powerful men on the planet.

From this article, it seems he does not appreciate that fact.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

People in such positions usually don't, these days. That's , in large part, why we're in the mess we're in.

 

[elder999]

I have several thoughts based on this article ... for now, let me just say that Mr. Thomas appears to not understand or appreciate his position. Literally, he is one of the most powerful men on the planet.

From this article, it seems he does not appreciate that fact.

While I'm no fan at all of Justice Thomas or most of his opinions, I failed to see how you drew the conclusion that he "doesn't understand or appreciate his position." I'm not saying that you're wrong to draw that conclusion, just asking for you to go ahead and elaborate, please......

 

[Big Don]

I have several thoughts based on this article ... for now, let me just say that Mr. Thomas appears to not understand or appreciate his position. Literally, he is one of the most powerful men on the planet.

From this article, it seems he does not appreciate that fact.

Oh, I've got a few thoughts about this article as well:
Justice Thomas has been repeatedly vilified by the very (Democrats) politicians and partisans that said we needed a black person on the Supreme Court. Because he doesn't whine about racism, he isn't black enough. Because he was appointed by a republican, he is obviously both stupid and a race traitor.
Had your name been dragged through the mud, had you suffered the slings and arrows of elitist shmucks, you might lash out as well...

 

[michaeledward]

While I'm no fan at all of Justice Thomas or most of his opinions, I failed to see how you drew the conclusion that he "doesn't understand or appreciate his position." I'm not saying that you're wrong to draw that conclusion, just asking for you to go ahead and elaborate, please......

According to the article ... Justice Thomas writes this in his book.

"The mob I now faced carried no ropes or guns," Thomas writes of his hearings. "Its weapons were smooth-tongued lies spoken into microphones and printed on the front pages of America's newspapers. . . . But it was a mob all the same, and its purpose -- to keep the black man in his place -- was unchanged.

As a member of the United States Supreme Court, he is in a position to influence, and perhaps change, the mob's purpose.

and this:

"I'd graduated from one of America's top law schools -- but racial preference had robbed my achievement of its true value."

The non-value of that Yale degree allowed him to earn one of the most prestigious seats in government, anywhere.

Doesn't it seem that he has a great big chip on his shoulder? I am reminded of Linda Rondstat's song "Poor, Poor Pitiful Me."

 

[crushing]

As a member of the United States Supreme Court, he is in a position to influence, and perhaps change, the mob's purpose.

How would you suggest Justice Thomas use his position to change the mob's purpose of making it uncomfortable for blacks to be conservative? You don't think his accomplishments help?

The non-value of that Yale degree allowed him to earn one of the most prestigious seats in government, anywhere.

There is a huge difference between the value of something not being fully realized, it being short of its true-value, and and it being reduced to a non-value.

Doesn't it seem that he has a great big chip on his shoulder? I am reminded of Linda Rondstat's song "Poor, Poor Pitiful Me."

Now this upsets me! That is a Warren Zevon song!

 

[elder999]

Doesn't it seem that he has a great big chip on his shoulder? I am reminded of Linda Rondstat's song "Poor, Poor Pitiful Me."

As someone of a decidedly similar background, who has faced exactly the same sort of thing, and acheived quite a bit of position in my own field (though nowhere near "one of the most powerdful people in the world") I'd have to say that no, it doesn't seem at all that he has a great big chip on his shoulder. I'll elaborate a bit more later, but for now let's just say that I caught quite the ration of grief for my somewhat straighter hair and somewhat lighter coloring all through the 70's and 80's-not to mention my use of proper English, getting good grades in school, and any number of other aspects of my life that weren't 'black enough." In the end, whether it's "white society" or "blackp society" that makes a detemination of what an individual should be, how that individual should behave, and what that individual should stand for, it is a form of racism, and exactly what the man is speaking of-as much as the rather ridiculous and drawn out effort to defeat his nomination, along with the allegations of Anita Hill.
Mind you, I don't like the guy at all, but I have no doubt that it felt just the way he describes, and still dopn't see how that means-even if he does have a chip on his shoulder-that he doesn't appreciate his position.

 

[Big Don]

As a member of the United States Supreme Court, he is in a position to influence, and perhaps change, the mob's purpose.

and this:

Doesn't it seem that he has a great big chip on his shoulder? I am reminded of Linda Rondstat's song "Poor, Poor Pitiful Me."

Really, is that what the Supreme Court is supposed to do? I don't think so, and I am pretty sure Justice Thomas doesn't think so either.
Yeah, how dare he have a chip on his shoulder just because people lie about him and accuse him of things he didn't do. I mean really, the nerve of some people.

 

[michaeledward]

How would you suggest Justice Thomas use his position to change the mob's purpose of making it uncomfortable for blacks to be conservative? You don't think his accomplishments help?

Justice Thomas is renowned for how little he speaks from the Bench. During oral arguments, he rarely raises any questions. I don't think that he writes many of the decisions, but rather signs on the written work of others.

Now, there is nothing really wrong with that, however, by being a prominent black conservative, speaking up a bit more. Adding voice to the robes he wears might be one method to change the mob's purpose.

There is a huge difference between the value of something not being fully realized, it being short of its true-value, and and it being reduced to a non-value.

He attended one of the most prestigious schools in America. He had to attend the classes. He had to pass the tests. I think his comments negate the more substantial portion of achieving a Yale degree.

Now this upsets me! That is a Warren Zevon song!

Is it? Didn't know that. Used to play it in my band, we had a girl singer ... Rondstat is way cuter than Zevon. So there.

 

[michaeledward]

Mind you, I don't like the guy at all, but I have no doubt that it felt just the way he describes, and still dopn't see how that means-even if he does have a chip on his shoulder-that he doesn't appreciate his position.

Fair enough.

Of course, I am only forming these opinions from the article. I really think it doesn't paint a very pretty picture of the man; and he wrote it.

I haven't decided yet if I am going to buy the book or not. Perhaps, at greater length, a different picture will appear.

 

[michaeledward]

Nina Totenburg's commentary is kind of interesting.

... it is a book of complete bitterness and rage .... his bitterness, as I said, permiates every page of this book, leaps off of it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14834306

Over at DailyKos, one person suggests the book indicates that Justice Thomas could never be impartial, and he should recuse himself on any argument with a liberal petitioner.

 

[jks9199]

While I'm no fan at all of Justice Thomas or most of his opinions, I failed to see how you drew the conclusion that he "doesn't understand or appreciate his position." I'm not saying that you're wrong to draw that conclusion, just asking for you to go ahead and elaborate, please......

I'd at least to like to hear that he formed that opinion AFTER reading the book, not merely a review in a paper that's notoriusly liberal and hostile towards conservatives.

 

[jks9199]

Quote:
Originally Posted by crushing
There is a huge difference between the value of something not being fully realized, it being short of its true-value, and and it being reduced to a non-value.




He attended one of the most prestigious schools in America. He had to attend the classes. He had to pass the tests. I think his comments negate the more substantial portion of achieving a Yale degree.

And yet, like so many people who fit any of the various preference categories, he has to deal with the people who look at him and wonder (and I'm sure some wonder aloud) whether he "really" earned his degree, or any other part of his success, or whether it was handed to him.

Justice Thomas doesn't pen a lot of opinions, to my recollection. I'll qualify that with the observation that I only read US SC cases that have relevance professionally... With that said, I've always been impressed by the reasoning in his opinions. Of course, that might be because I tend to agree...

 

[crushing]

Originally Posted by Nina Totenburg
... it is a book of complete bitterness and rage .... his bitterness, as I said, permiates every page of this book, leaps off of it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14834306

Do you think if he took his frustration out on someone physically, rather than write about and share his experience, he could get more support from much of the mob that so easily condemns him?

 

[Big Don]

Nina Totenburg's commentary is kind of interesting.




http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14834306

Over at DailyKos, one person suggests the book indicates that Justice Thomas could never be impartial, and he should recuse himself on any argument with a liberal petitioner.

The Kossacks being known for impartiality and reasoned thought.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I read the article, not the book, but I sense some bitterness in his prose, at least the way The Post presents it:

Thomas has been a sharp critic of affirmative action and the use of racial classifications in schools, but he acknowledges in the book that he was admitted to Yale Law School in 1971 partly because he was black. "I'd graduated from one of America's top law schools -- but racial preference had robbed my achievement of its true value."

This has always been a sore spot for Thomas. In discussing 'his achievement' though, I feel he leaves out another achievement. He went to an Ivy League school at a time when many of his professors and fellow students were probably waiting for him to screw up, to prove that Affirmative Action was a failure, and he was a fraud. There may have been others who saw him as project. And I'm sure many of his classmates saw the Ivy League as their birthright and resented the Hell out of anyone else who got there any other way.

Instead, he got through it. At this stage of life, it's a shame he draws no satisfaction from that...at least as far as this article is concerned anyway.

He writes that (Anita) Hill did a "mediocre" job at the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, where he was chairman, and misrepresented herself at the time of the hearings as a "devoutly religious Reagan-administration employee." "In fact, she was a left-winger who'd never expressed any religious sentiments" and had a job in the administration "because I'd given it to her."

It seems to me that the confirmation hearing never actually resolved the matter of who was telling the truth. Even allowing for the possibility that Thomas was falsely accused and would therefore feel marked for life, I can't help but think it is still disastrous to drag this much bitterness around for nearly two decades.

Shortly after the confirmation hearings, I recall watching a documentary on PBS (I think) in which some African-Americans described their reactions to the heavily-publicized event. A number of them commented that the televised spectacle recalled for them how slaves might have felt as their masters watched them have sex. I can, in no way, attest to this sentiment, but I took it very much to heart at the time as a reminder that there were many things in life that I might not understand as the beneficiary of white middle class privilege. Assuming that is a broadly-felt sentiment among African-Americans, and since these many years have passed, it would be comforting to think that Thomas might have found some redemption in the experience. Some lesson.

Now I've written all of this without having the read the man's own words. Though I've never been a fan of Thomas, I might read this in paperback one day.

 

[elder999]

He attended one of the most prestigious schools in America. He had to attend the classes. He had to pass the tests. I think his comments negate the more substantial portion of achieving a Yale degree.

Erm.... George W. Bush has degrees from Yale and Harvard. It's just not that big a deal-my dad was one of the most educated people anyone could ever meet, and his favorite comment about education (and he might have stolen it from Mark Twain or someone) was: You can stack an encyclopedia on a donkey's back, and it'll still just be a jackass.

Besides, the real achievement of attending those "most prestigious schools" has almost always been getting in-and there are a variety of ways of doing that.

It's easy to question affirmative action, and its implications from both sides, and could be pretty easy to reach the kind of conclusions he has. In fact, I've shared some of them, over the years-it's one reason why I don't enter race on what I call the "E-I-E-I-O" (EEO) forms for employers-(and on this farm he had some blacks, E-I-E-I-O! :lol: ).

I think everyone's comments about his being bitter, full of rage, and having a chip on his shoulder are right on. My dad also used to say :The thing about carrying those chips on your shoulder is that they have a habit of growing into Sequoias.Better to get rid of them and move on.

]And, as an aside, what is all the fuss about buying the damn book? If you buy it, some of your money will go to him, or wherever it is that he plans on putting it, anyway. The best thing for anyone to do, and I'm ranting here- is GO TO THE GODDAM LIBRARY! I mean, the libraries are absolutely going to buy it, and-here's the irony-many of them are going to use federal funds to do so......technically, you've already bought thousands of copies....

 

[Gordon Nore]

And, as an aside, what is all the fuss about buying the damn book? If you buy it, some of your money will go to him, or wherever it is that he plans on putting it, anyway. The best thing for anyone to do, and I'm ranting here- is GO TO THE GODDAM LIBRARY! I mean, the libraries are absolutely going to buy it, and-here's the irony-many of them are going to use federal funds to do so......technically, you've already bought thousands of copies....

:roflmao:
Damn, that's funny. Confession: I'm a middle school librarian, and I did not think of that.

 

[Big Don]

:roflmao:
Damn, that's funny. Confession: I'm a middle school librarian, and I did not think of that.

You're so fired.

 

[michaeledward]

]And, as an aside, what is all the fuss about buying the damn book? If you buy it, some of your money will go to him, or wherever it is that he plans on putting it, anyway. The best thing for anyone to do, and I'm ranting here- is GO TO THE GODDAM LIBRARY! I mean, the libraries are absolutely going to buy it, and-here's the irony-many of them are going to use federal funds to do so......technically, you've already bought thousands of copies....

It really has nothing to do with money going to the man, or his publishing company. Hell, if you want, I'll send them a check without reading the book. I'm just not sure that I want to read about his life until he becomes a member of the Supreme Court. The autobiography apparently has very little context about his time on the bench. I think it would be far more interesting and informative to see how his experiences have shaped the opinions he brings to the Supreme Court.

I mostly read non-fiction, but, I'm not so sure I want to read a book by somebody who, according to the two reviews I have heard about, sapps the energy from the room. I much prefer to read works that provide zapp.


I will also remind you of this thread ... http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=831983&postcount=1 ... I've always been pretty open minded. And I'll pay the money to observe things outside of my beliefs.

Good Grief.