music downloading

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Technopunk
Actaully my point is not even about copywrite violation... its about not UNDERSTANDING the laws regarding it...

I see it as a compromise between the copyright holder's financial rights and the renter's financial rights. It's a mess, but a line must be drawn somewhere.

Put another way, I might agree, but first can you suggest a better system of copyright protection (in law, not a technological solution)?

However, if you read my previous post, I also stated that I do NOT use filesharing software, but i also will not purchase CD's from Artists on a RIAA sponsored label.

Sorry! It's hard to keep all the players straight.

As for a solution... I propose to continue to produce and sell CD's to those who want them, give the digital copies away for free, and continue to make BILLIONS of DOLLARS on the tickets to the concerts, Tshirts, stickers, merchandising, etc etc etc etc... that the artists sell, because more music in circulation = Larger fan base = more sold out venues. Oh wait... Thats only Billions instead of HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS. What was I thinking.

I don't know if this would be sufficient cash or not. Remember, there are many bills to pay--musicians, managers, roadies, PR people, lawyers, secretaries, and so many many more. Limiting David Lee Roth to two homes rather than seven isn't necessarily going to cut it--all those people, and possibly investors, must be paid.

 

[Cryozombie]

The author of one of my favorite Post Cyberpunk Novels, and what he has to say on the subject...

http://www.maxbarry.com/max/writings/copyright.html

 

[arnisador]

Anti-pirracy safeguards in new music CD:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...e=9&u=/usatoday/20030923/tc_usatoday/11865096

 

[Elfan]

Previous attempts at this have resulted in cripled CDs that are in violation of that little "compact disc" logo you see in the corner. I'm not sure how this is going to be any different.

And WMA? Could they have chosen a worse format?

 

[arnisador]

Someone always finds a way to counter these types of protections. I think they will need to change their business model instead. The problem for them is it only requires one person to crack it and distribute it--someone will do it just for fun/challenge.

 

[OULobo]

Moral discussions aside, I have to reiterate the point that the new levels of technology that have come into play are going to allow human nature to mold certain industries to people's needs and, more importantly, wants, much to the distaste of these industrys' governing bodies. The net now allows us to dictate more directly the availability and cost of music, movies, all media in general. The idea that the industries will be able to reign in these expansions in availibility and unhindered distribution are futile and sad to watch (as it accentuates their desperate and greedy nature). It's time the industry adapts to the new technology by accepting the new revolutions in media expansion and availability and stops trying to fight it. The problem with fighting it is that for every hacker you buy to control the net there are ten that are independant and working against you.

 

[arnisador]

I concur about the futility. On another front:

"Makers of Kazaa Are Suing Record Labels"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030924/ap_on_hi_te/file_sharing_lawsuit_3

They claim using KaZaa to fight KaZaa isn't fair.

 

[Elfan]

Recording industry withdraws suit
Mistaken identity raises questions on legal strategy

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2003/09/24/recording_industry_withdraws_suit/

 

[OULobo]

Is it true that Kazaa keeps from getting sued by locating its servers on some small south pacific island nation where there are no copyright laws. If it is then it has to be really expensive, but can you imagine how cool it would be to be located there to work.

 

[OULobo]

looks like even CNN thinks this is getting rediculous.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/09/24/tech.lawsuit.ap/index.html

 

[FiveSwords]

Check this out:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/25/0510208&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=146&tid=95&tid=99

I sure as hell don't want any corporations, especially the RIAA, teaching our children ethics.

:soapbox:

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by arnisador
I concur about the futility. On another front:

"Makers of Kazaa Are Suing Record Labels"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030924/ap_on_hi_te/file_sharing_lawsuit_3

They claim using KaZaa to fight KaZaa isn't fair.

Actually they say that using a cracked version of Kazaa to log onto the network is ilegal.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Elfan
Actually they say that using a cracked version of Kazaa to log onto the network is ilegal.

Yes, but their argument boils down to What's Sauce for the Goose isn't Sauce for the Gander, in my opinion.

I find it hypocritical of KaZaa to oppose them fighting fire with fire. I'm not surprised they're trying to enforce their rights, and it's fine, but I still find KaZaa claiming--in essence--copyright violation of their copyright-violating product to be amusing.

 

[arnisador]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...=/ap/20030930/ap_on_en_mu/downloading_music_4

The recording industry on Monday announced settlements with 52 of the 261 Internet users it sued over allegations they illegally permitted others to download music from their computers using popular file-sharing software.



The Recording Industry Association of America (news - web sites), which plans to file hundreds more lawsuits in October, did not specify how much it collected. Defense lawyers familiar with some cases said payments ranged from $2,500 to $7,500 each, with at least one settlement for as much as $10,000.


The settlements, which do not include any admission of wrongdoing, require Internet users to destroy copies of illegally downloaded songs and agree to "not make any public statements that are inconsistent" with the agreement.

 

[OULobo]

I read the settlement amounts were decided on to discourage the hiring of defense lawyers. They stated that the numbers were low enough where it would be unreasonable to hire attorneys. Looks like the RIAA doesn't want to take this to trial.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by arnisador
but I still find KaZaa claiming--in essence--copyright violation of their copyright-violating product to be amusing.

KaZaa isnt DESIGNED to violate copyright, that is just how the tool is being used.

Hammers are not designed to kill people, but they are used to do so... should we outlaw hammers?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Technopunk
KaZaa isnt DESIGNED to violate copyright, that is just how the tool is being used.

This is disingenuous. The success of the RIAA suits shows that, whatever defensive language KaZaa may use, their product and ones like it are made to share copyrighted materials. Anything else would be put on a web page/ftp server instead! Only for copyrighted material is KaZaa's diffusion of repsonsibility necessary.

You might as well claim that a bong in a head shop is sold as a piece of art, not to be usedt` to smoke marijuana...or that a vibrator is a "hand-held massager" as the ads say.

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by arnisador
This is disingenuous. The success of the RIAA suits shows that, whatever defensive language KaZaa may use, their product and ones like it are made to share copyrighted materials. Anything else would be put on a web page/ftp server instead! Only for copyrighted material is KaZaa's diffusion of repsonsibility necessary.

You might as well claim that a bong in a head shop is sold as a piece of art, not to be usedt` to smoke marijuana...or that a vibrator is a "hand-held massager" as the ads say.

Two points:

1) "KaZaa... and ones like it are made to share copyrighted material." Its important not to think that the primary purpose of all p2p applications is the distribution of copyrighted material. That was almost certainly the intent behind KaZaa. However, bittorrent (http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/) is primarily for new linux isos and movie trailers and other things if that nature. Freenet (http://freenet.sourceforge.net/) allows one to publish information without being censored. Both freenet and Bittorent can and are used to distribute copyrighted stuff but do a very crappy job at it. However, they are excellent at what they set out to do.

2. "Only for copyrighted material is KaZaa's diffusion of responsibility necessary." It is also a diffusion of resources. If I am a stereotypical poor artist, there is no way I can afford the bandwidth for a ftp site to distribute my music. However, if I can generate some buzz and get it out on some p2p networks than I can distribute it that way at no financial cost to myself.

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by arnisador
Someone always finds a way to counter these types of protections. I think they will need to change their business model instead. The problem for them is it only requires one person to crack it and distribute it--someone will do it just for fun/challenge.

And they have:

http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~jhalderm/cd3/

 

[someguy]

I agree that sometimes its right and some times its not.
-if your getting something that is played on the radio over and over and over and over and over its wrong because you have heard it and know if you like it
-if your getting something that is impossible to get its alright
-if its something you havent heard beefore and want to know if its good or not then i think its right

that said KaZaa id perfectly legal its only what it is mainly used for that is illegal...
that sounds similar to if people should be allowed to have assult rifles due to there only purpose and ill let you figure out what i mean the rest of the way.
Not to start a debate on assult rifles just an example.