MT Encyclopedia Entry on Kenpo/Kempo

[kidswarrior]

I have theory you all can feel free to shoot down, but it will be pretty hard to shake this opinion. The pronuncation of kenpo is an Ed Parker twist on the word Kempo.

This is interesting in that if you look at John Bishop's lineage chart, it seems only EPAK descendants use the 'n'. Other than the overarching Ka*ju*ken*bo. Feel free to shoot this down, too, as I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[D.Cobb]

This is interesting in that if you look at John Bishop's lineage chart, it seems only EPAK descendants use the 'n'. Other than the overarching Ka*ju*ken*bo. Feel free to shoot this down, too, as I'm just thinking out loud.

Not entirely true. If you look outside of the American/ Hawaiian lines of Kenpo you will find others that use the 'N'.

The only one that springs to mind right now (I'm having brain cramp), is Patrick McCarthy, and he's a Canadian. There are others, mostly those of Okinawan extraction, without the Japanese influence.

--Dave

 

[Zoran]

Hmmm that's not what it says here,

--Dave

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyuan_languages

The Ryukyuan languages are spoken in the Ryukyu Islands and make up a subfamily of the Japonic language family. Some disagree as to how these languages should be divided. However, there is a consensus among Ryukyuanists that there are 6 different groups[1].

The main thing though is not the spoken word, but the kanji. Kenpo/Kempo is the transliteration a Japanese word. However, one of the Okinawan laguages may speak/pronounce the word differently. It could also be possible that the original kanji was first used in one of the Okinawan islands carried over from China (note: I am no where even close to being an expert on these things).

Incidentally, the kanji for Kenpo (Japanese) and Chuan Fa (Chinese) are identical (that I've seen at various sources).

 

[D.Cobb]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyuan_languages



The main thing though is not the spoken word, but the kanji. Kenpo/Kempo is the transliteration a Japanese word. However, one of the Okinawan laguages may speak/pronounce the word differently. It could also be possible that the original kanji was first used in one of the Okinawan islands carried over from China (note: I am no where even close to being an expert on these things).

Incidentally, the kanji for Kenpo (Japanese) and Chuan Fa (Chinese) are identical (that I've seen at various sources).

I wonder if the original Okinawan kanji is the same too. If so does that make it Japanese or Chinese:idunno:

I have read, with regard to the language influences, that the Chinese had a greater influence than the Japanese over the Okinawan language as well as influencing the martial arts component of their culture. This was of course until the Ryukyu Kingdom was annexed to Japan in the 1800's.

However I will admit, I too am far from expert in this subject.

--Dave

 

[Zoran]

I wonder if the original Okinawan kanji is the same too.

Probably.

You know, I never really checked this before, but Japanese Kanji appears to be Chinese to begin with. See, I can be pretty dense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji

Well, that explains why everything is similar. So the Kanji 拳法 in Japan would be Kenpo, in China it would be Chuan Fa. So in one of the old Okinawan laguages, who knows (well at least I don't).

 

[BlackCatBonz]

The japanese writing system was adopted from china......and before the kana system was developed, only kanji was used. Kanji means "han characters", which refer to the han dynasty.......Japan went through a time that everything chinese was in vogue.
There are characters that are uniquely japanese that use chinese characters though.
The characters have to readings, chinese (on-yomi) and japanese (kun-yomi).

 

[D.Cobb]

The japanese writing system was adopted from china......and before the kana system was developed, only kanji was used. Kanji means "han characters", which refer to the han dynasty.......Japan went through a time that everything chinese was in vogue.
There are characters that are uniquely japanese that use chinese characters though.
The characters have to readings, chinese (on-yomi) and japanese (kun-yomi).

Hey Zoran, this guy seems to know a bit more than you or I let's ask him....

So Shawn, does this mean that Kenpo/ Kempo is a Japanese word or an Okinawan word? Are they 2 different languages or is Okinawan a subset of Japanese?

--Dave (and possibly Zoran )

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Hey Zoran, this guy seems to know a bit more than you or I let's ask him....

So Shawn, does this mean that Kenpo/ Kempo is a Japanese word or an Okinawan word? Are they 2 different languages or is Okinawan a subset of Japanese?

--Dave (and possibly Zoran )

As far as I know, Okinawan is a different language....or different enough that okinawan visitors needed a translator when visitning japan.
This would lead me to surmise that kempo is a japanese word because:
1. The differences in language.
2. I've been told by japanese teachers.
3. there are many references to it in old japanese martial arts texts.

Now, it doesnt matter as japanese is pretty widely spoken in okinawa.

Understanding that, is kempo an on-yomi or an kun yomi pronunciation?
If it is an on-yomi pronunciation, then it is possible that the okinawan word would similar to the japanese word.

I would like to add, the "n" or "m" in the spelling is irrelevant (unless you're from NA), either version is and should be acceptable, just be prepared to catch flak for whatever way you spell it.

 

[Zoran]

As far as I know, Okinawan is a different language....or different enough that okinawan visitors needed a translator when visitning japan.
This would lead me to surmise that kempo is a japanese word because:
1. The differences in language.
2. I've been told by japanese teachers.
3. there are many references to it in old japanese martial arts texts.

Now, it doesnt matter as japanese is pretty widely spoken in okinawa.

Understanding that, is kempo an on-yomi or an kun yomi pronunciation?
If it is an on-yomi pronunciation, then it is possible that the okinawan word would similar to the japanese word.

I would like to add, the "n" or "m" in the spelling is irrelevant (unless you're from NA), either version is and should be acceptable, just be prepared to catch flak for whatever way you spell it.

Thank you, that is as I understood it as well (except for the on/kun yomi part).

Also to add to it, Shorinji Kempo (Shaolin ChuanFa) has no relation to okinawan martial arts as it was reportedly brought back from China to Japan by the founder.

I have also "heard" the following from those more in touch with the Japanese laguage;

• Kenpo/Kempo better translates to english into "fighting method". I believe "fist law" tends to be more a translation of the Kanji symbols.
• Kenpo/Kempo can be used, in Japan, for martial arts that have some Chinese origin.

Anyways, this is what I have heard from others.

 

[Carol]

"Kenpo" in Japan is often used generically to refer to a fighting art, much like "Karate" is used generically in the US.

 

[Zoran]

"Kenpo" in Japan is often used generically to refer to a fighting art, much like "Karate" is used generically in the US.

Yep, that's the funny thing about languages. Words can mean different things to different people and context. You can easily see it in english when you look up a word in a dictionary and find several different definitions.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

"Kenpo" in Japan is often used generically to refer to a fighting art, much like "Karate" is used generically in the US.

I was told they use the word budo.

 

[bdocili]

Hello everyone,
I'm glad to see the interst in the Kenpo History. I've studied Kenpo for the past 25 years. I also have been intrested in the history of the late GGM Mitose. My lineage is from Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro, my teacher is Grandmaster Richard Alameny
I myself take the good with the bad. we are all here to learn what works for us. It dosen't mater that Mitose was the Best or just good. What maters is that He got the ball rolling so we can be the best we can be, and all the defferent styles that has come from this begining. we can all enjoy and benifit from. I encorage everyone to seek there own truth in themself. Keep up all great info. I enjoy this site, no bickering, just good sharing of knowlage and fellowship.

Hey, quick question for you? Has Senior Professor Alemany broken off from Shaolin Kenpo? The reason I ask is that I keep seeing him referred to as "Grandmaster". His title in the Shaolin Kenpo association is Senior Professor as his last awarded rank was 8th degree in 1992. My teacher was also a Senior Professor (Genaro Jose) but he liked us to call him Sifu. There are only two grandmasters in Shaolin Kenpo; Great Grandmaster Ralph Castro and Grandmaster Rob Castro (next in line to take over the system). So, back to my question, has Mr. Alemany broken off?

 

[Kenpo5.0Hawker]

I can't get the Wiki to come up. I keep getting told - Error

 

[jks9199]

Just a note... you might want to look at the dates on some posts. The most recent in this thread is from 2007. I think Bob gave up on getting authors to maintain the Wiki...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The wiki crashed a while back. I plan on recovering the content, but don't have an eta for that.

 

[Big Don]

The wiki crashed a while back. I plan on recovering the content, but don't have an eta for that.

So, I am more tired than I realized. I stared at this and wondered, "What the F is an eta?"

 

[jks9199]

Add an f, and eta become feta... goat cheese.

 

[TSDTexan]

Ryukyuan languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The main thing though is not the spoken word, but the kanji. Kenpo/Kempo is the transliteration a Japanese word. However, one of the Okinawan laguages may speak/pronounce the word differently. It could also be possible that the original kanji was first used in one of the Okinawan islands carried over from China (note: I am no where even close to being an expert on these things).

Incidentally, the kanji for Kenpo (Japanese) and Chuan Fa (Chinese) are identical (that I've seen at various sources).

Kanji are Chinese ideograms... The logic that I am reading is Okinawan is Japanese because they use the written Kanji.
If this logic is valid... The Okinawan language, and the Japanese language are both Chinese.

However, this is not the case at all. Japanese language also has in addition to Kanji.. Katakana... Hiragona.

Moreover, ask any really old Okinawan are they Japanese or Okinawan. They had their own language, culture and royal family.... And were subjugated like the Koreans... The only difference is that the Korean occupation ended, and the Okinawan occupation had not.