Mr Hayes' original practices of ninjutsu

[arnisador]

And I have NEVER in the past couple of years seen Jeff act from personal feelings when it comes to a debate that may be taking place that he is involved in. NEVER have I seen him use his Mod powers to punish somebody he is in a debate or even heated argument with. To insinuate such, with no indication of that possibility, shows a lack of maturity.

He's new here. How could he know what you know from the past few years? I take him on faith that he thought it was prudent not to risk being seen as someone who would antagonize a staff member. Isn't that the kind of prudence we hope for in new users? He was asked why he was being quiet about something, and he answered simply and honestly. Frankly, the several pro-Kreth posts that followed would just reinforce my concerns if I were he, since saying as little as he did about a staff member has surely brought a reaction.

 

[MBuzzy]

[playnice]Craig Mills[/playnice]

 

[Bob Hubbard]

He's new here. How could he know what you know from the past few years? I take him on faith that he thought it was prudent not to risk being seen as someone who would antagonize a staff member. Isn't that the kind of prudence we hope for in new users? He was asked why he was being quiet about something, and he answered simply and honestly. Frankly, the several pro-Kreth posts that followed would just reinforce my concerns if I were he, since saying as little as he did about a staff member has surely brought a reaction.

People are welcome to speak their mind, member or staff, within rules and hopefully reason. Staff posting as members aren't allowed to act as moderators. Any complaints should be routed to the Steering Board (That's any Super Mod or Assistant Admin) or me, as appropriate.


Regarding Mr. Hayes, his books are well read parts of my martial arts book shelf, and the reason why we originally set up a Ninjutsu section here (way back before I even know what Koga was). Martial Talk is one of few sites that have a dedicated section for his arts, that we have kept open despite it being a less trafficked section. Our goal here is to maintain a reasonable friendliness in our discussions, which basically means we aren't afraid to ask hard questions, but we won't tolerate out and out flame wars nor will we insist on everyone joining hands and singing camp fire songs while roasting marsh mellons.

 

[bydand]

He's new here. How could he know what you know from the past few years? I take him on faith that he thought it was prudent not to risk being seen as someone who would antagonize a staff member. Isn't that the kind of prudence we hope for in new users? He was asked why he was being quiet about something, and he answered simply and honestly. Frankly, the several pro-Kreth posts that followed would just reinforce my concerns if I were he, since saying as little as he did about a staff member has surely brought a reaction.

You are absolutely right. I forget how much can be taken for granted when you have been around for awhile. Very good point, and a good reminder to look at something from the other posters perspective.

 

[newtothe dark]

Good point

 

[shinbushi]

His Japanese is flawless.

OK, I was not going to post as I don't care about Toshindo but, this is just false.
I translated for Soke and Nagato Sensei for 7 years and Hayes's Japanese is not even conversational. Frankly it is pathetic

One example (of many) In the late 80's at Ishizuka Sensei's dojo in the junk yard. Soke told the class to divide the class in half (We we going to do Naginata work) Hayes went over to grab a hanbo. 4 of us translator shouted out no divide the class in half.


Whenever he was in Japan we would have Rumiko whispering in his ear. If it were not for that he would not be able to talk with Soke.

 

[Kreth]

OK, I was not going to post as I don't care about Toshindo but, this is just false.

Thanks for trying, David, but I'm sure we'll hear about how you're just jealous... :lol:

 

[newtothe dark]

Or a rumor monger

 

[lalom]

Indeed!

The great thing about Toshindo is that you can still get the original training that went on in the early days. The training in the Bujinkan now has been modified for all the students who have shown up for only a short while without the deep relationship Hatsumi sensei had with Anshu. There are things no longer taught in the Bujinkan but still found in Toshindo.

Jealous people have said that these things never came from Hatsumi sensei. They say that Anshu is now out of favor with him and has even been thrown out. But if you talk to Anshu, you will find the truth. The greatest source of authentic training as taught by Takamatsu O'sensei can only be found in Toshindo.

Dude! Would you please stop?! I can certainly appreciate your zeal for An-Shu Hayes' teachings, but to make statements for which you have no proof will just bring more attack on you. I train in To-Shin Do LDS as well, but, I try not to think I know it all just because I've read the SKH site over and over. Grow up!

 

[Jade Tigress]

ATTENTION ALL USERS - SECOND WARNING

A warning to keep the thread polite and respectful was placed 2 days ago. We realize this is a controversial topic and welcome discussion on it, but please address the topic and refrain from personal slams. Disregard of forum rules could lead to thread locking and infractions being issued.

Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

Pamela Piszczek
MT Super Moderator

 

[JadeDragon3]

Our goal here is to maintain a reasonable friendliness in our discussions, which basically means we aren't afraid to ask hard questions, but we won't tolerate out and out flame wars nor will we insist on everyone joining hands and singing camp fire songs while roasting marsh mellons.

Darnitt, I was hoping for us to all sing Kumbayah or the Barnie Song. No smores?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Oh no, not the Barnie song.

 

[kwaichang]

Barney is a dinosaur from our imagination
When he’s tall he’s what we call
A dinosaur sensation
Barney teaches lots of things
Like how to play pretend
A-B-C’s and 1-2-3’s
And how to be a friend
Barney comes to play with us
Whenever we may need him
Barney can be your friend too
If you just make believe him:shooter:

 

[JadeDragon3]

Oh no, not the Barnie song.

I love you. You love me. We're one big disfunctional family. With a great big hit & kick from me to you.

 

[kwaichang]

:shooter:

 

[bydand]

Oh God kill me now. To think, I thought the thread had taken a bad turn earlier.

 

[newtothe dark]

How does this happen?:barf:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Okay let's all try and get back to the origional theme of the thread.

 

[SKB]

So here is something odd. I can train with TSD folks or Buji folks and we all know the same stuff???????? How can that be???? I've trained with folks who just got back from Japan and they are not doing things i do not get?????? Maybe there is more to what we all claim to be learning then just the name of the group you train with????

By the way............ what's wrong with thinking your group is better then the other? I notice some non-TSD folks who think their way is the 'bestest' and no one gets on them for it?????

 

[GBlues]

So I am a newb.....? But the two basic things that I keep reading, is this.

"To-Shin Do is the same as Bujinkan" TSD guy

"No, To-Shindo is not the same as Bujinkan" Buj Guy

"Yeah well, Bujinkan Sucks!" TSD guy

"Oh, dirt bag, well SKH Sucks!" Buj guy

"Screw you Hayes still trains with Hatsumi" TSD guy

"No, he doesn't, and if you had been to Japan in the last 3 months you'd know that." Buj guy

"****! HE was there last week." TSD guy

"No he wasn't cause I was there" Buj guy

" Well I asked Hayes myself and he's called B.S. on the whole deal" TSD guy

" He's a liar Hatsumi says this." Buj guy

" No way, Hayes says this! Hatsumi is a liar" TSD guy



All of this kind of translates to......" My dad is tougher than your dad, and he'll kick your dad's butt!"

?????? I know before anybody posts nobody has come out and said these things verbatum. However, it really is kind of the undertones. Whether Mr. Hayes still trains with Hatsumi or not, Whether they like each other or not, it's your opinion, you are most assuredly entitled to it. Well, if you live in America you are free to one anyways.

I would like to make this one point and yes, I'm new to the art of To-Shin Do but this is a good point for those of us that are trying to learn from Mr. Hayes, or one of his students. I myself had not practiced what I have learned. I think this should apply to the Bujinkan guys also. It may makes things a little bit easier to swallow. It's the answer you have all been looking for. At the Quest Center that I attend we have a what we call a "Code of Mindful Action" Number 8 reads as follows: "I encourage all to speak purposefully from the heart. I avoid the dull contentment of gossip and small talk."

I think all of us, including me, should think about those two sentences and what they mean to us, and to, these threads about TSD and Bujinkan. I think the reality, is you can have 20 people see a thing happen, and if you ask all twenty of them, they will all twenty tell you something different. Like Obi-Wan Kenobi tells Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi. " Luke you'll find as you get older that many of the truths that we cling to, are dependent upon a certain point of view"

No one knows what's going on between TSD and Bujinkan, or Hayes and Hatsumi, except the two people involved. That's my peace and have a good day everybody, please don't rip on me too hard, I am sensitive. LOL