Mr.Calkins

[eyebeams]

Hey guys I thought this thread was about trashing "Soke" Calkins....

Oh, there's definitely a subtext bigger than that. This meander kind of shows the point I was trying to make. Martial artists have been lying to each other for centuries. The guys who've told the oldest lies now have students and traditions.

Bruce Calkins has no proof he ever studied Aiki arts? Hm. -- neither did the founder of Hapkido. Ed Parker's history of rank promotion remains one of the most mindbending examples of he said/she said ever (maybe he got some secret grades for developing Real Secret Kenpo, which can only be unlocked with the skills granted by a Secret PhD). Hell, Don Roley's one of the preeminent Calkins thread participants, and he studied Bujinkan "We never wanted to be in your koryu orgs anyway, nyah!" Budo Taijutsu.

Please.

Again, I'm not defending Calkins -- but the martial arts community puts up with this kind of garbage -- tolerates and *encourages* it -- all the time. I rather think what ffends is not what Calkins has done, but that he's touched a nerve by doing what so many take for granted so artlessly. It's like he parodying the essence of the MA community, and I'm sure that stings.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mr. Koch's website contains numerous pictures, none of which contain Bruce. His site has been online since 2000. Thats 5 years. I dug back through the archives and there was never a mention of Bruce as an instructor, or guest instructor on there.

This has been mentioned a few times I think. As Mr. Kochs webmaster I feel safe to comment in an unofficial manner. I have carefully checked back through my archives of every incarnation of the website, my emails, updates, notes, etc. Until he (Mr. Calkins) signed up here, I had not heard of him. I find no mention of his name, nor any pictures of him in my files. I registered the domain, did the initial design, and other than a short period have been maintaining it since Nov. 2000. I do not recall ever having listed him on the instructor listing, nor seen his certificate on the wall at the school, either it's old or current location.

Mr. Calkins stated he earned his IKKA black belt there in 1999 I believe. My girlfriend began her kenpo studies in the same year, and doesn't recall the name, nor recognize his pictures as anyone at the school.

I don't doubt that he trained there, I don't doubt that they know each other. But within my professional duties, a relationship/connection hasn't been mentioned.

Take it as you will. :asian:

 

[47MartialMan]

A)An obviously well thought out reply.

B)Yeah it’s a pretty well know software program, I doubt most people with any time on a PC haven’t heard of it.

A.) Yeah like this one; “inbred ridge running hillbilly”

B.) Heard of it yeah-perfection with it.......so that means a photo can be manipulated.

 

[47MartialMan]

Oh, there's definitely a subtext bigger than that. This meander kind of shows the point I was trying to make. Martial artists have been lying to each other for centuries. The guys who've told the oldest lies now have students and traditions.

Bruce Calkins has no proof he ever studied Aiki arts? Hm. -- neither did the founder of Hapkido. Ed Parker's history of rank promotion remains one of the most mindbending examples of he said/she said ever (maybe he got some secret grades for developing Real Secret Kenpo, which can only be unlocked with the skills granted by a Secret PhD). Hell, Don Roley's one of the preeminent Calkins thread participants, and he studied Bujinkan "We never wanted to be in your koryu orgs anyway, nyah!" Budo Taijutsu.

Please.

Again, I'm not defending Calkins -- but the martial arts community puts up with this kind of garbage -- tolerates and *encourages* it -- all the time. I rather think what ffends is not what Calkins has done, but that he's touched a nerve by doing what so many take for granted so artlessly. It's like he parodying the essence of the MA community, and I'm sure that stings.

So, please, in your opinion, what shall Bruce do?

 

[RRouuselot]

A.) Yeah like this one; “inbred ridge running hillbilly”

B.) Heard of it yeah-perfection with it.......so that means a photo can be manipulated.

B) If you are claiming I altered the photo cough up some proof or shut your cake hole.

 

[Tripitaka of AA]

If there is a subtext, I read it as this;

If you want to know something, learn it. If you have learned it, share it. If you are any good, people will come to you. If you want more people to come to you, be better.

At no time is it necessary to claim knowledge of things that you haven't studied. At no time is it necessary to wear a crown, feathers or a large spangley spandex body-stocking in order to convince people of your skill.

If at any stage you find it necessary to fabricate, embellish or distort the past, then you have lost your grounding in reality. You must stand on your own accomplishments, not those of your superhero alter-ego.

If you don't think enough people are listening to you, then it's probably not such a great idea to start shouting "look at me, look at me".



Oh and the other subtext is; don't try and BS the modern martial arts world, or you might get your name known for all the wrong reasons.

 

[RRouuselot]

If there is a subtext, I read it as this;

If you want to know something, learn it. If you have learned it, share it. If you are any good, people will come to you. If you want more people to come to you, be better.

1) At no time is it necessary to claim knowledge of things that you haven't studied. At no time is it necessary to wear a crown, feathers or a large spangley spandex body-stocking in order to convince people of your skill.

If at any stage you find it necessary to fabricate, embellish or distort the past, then you have lost your grounding in reality. You must stand on your own accomplishments, not those of your superhero alter-ego.

If you don't think enough people are listening to you, then it's probably not such a great idea to start shouting "look at me, look at me".



Oh and the other subtext is; don't try and BS the modern martial arts world, or you might get your name known for all the wrong reasons.

I guess I have to re-think my new Gi style then.

 

[Don Roley]

Again, I'm not defending Calkins -- but the martial arts community puts up with this kind of garbage -- tolerates and *encourages* it -- all the time. I rather think what ffends is not what Calkins has done, but that he's touched a nerve by doing what so many take for granted so artlessly. It's like he parodying the essence of the MA community, and I'm sure that stings.

Eyebeams,

I am going to respond before one of the more excitable members of the arts you mention do and explain the differences.

I am not the only Bujinkan member I know of that say we train under Hatsumi because we see nothing that indicates he is being completely honest about what he claims. At the same time, many of us are quite vocal about how much of our history should be treated as legend and not as fact. Mistakes happen and errors slip in over time.

Take a look at the story of Aikido's founder, Morihei Ueshiba, doged bullets that was recently mentioned. Stanly Pranin did a search a few years back and could not find anything traceable to Ueshiba about the story or to when he was still alive. The story seems to have been started after he died by a starry- eyed student and not Ueshiba. But now it is part of his legend.

If you go to Hatsumi and ask him about what he claims, he will be totally open to the questions and answer them for you. He can produce not only certificates and scrolls from his teacher, but point you to interviews his teacher did with a newspaper where the fact that Hatsumi was his succesor was mentioned as well as third parties who witnessed the relationship they had.

Compare this with Bruce. Can you honestly point me to one claim he has made that has been completly and honestly proven?

I want to believe that there is a mistake and if he would only take the time to prove his own training history that we will see that he is being honest. But since he has not done that with any of his claims, I can't bring myself to help him correct his many mistakes for fear that I may be helping a fraud to make his story sound better.

Let us look at his claims of training under a ninjutsu teacher. Hatsumi has a DVD of his teacher and him that I could show you. Bruce claims to have trained under a teacher named David Frost and can't seem to show that he even existed. Worse, he says that he saw a picture of Frost and Hatsumi training together when he was a live- in student of Frost in 1976. But since the number of non- Japanese training with Hatsumi prior to 1980 can be counted on one hand it was easy to determine that no one by that name had trained with him. So how can he explain his story of seeing a picture that could not have existed?

I want to believe that there is a mistake and that Bruce's memory is failing him or any other mistake. But with just that on the table I can't risk the chance that I would be helping a man who made up his story of training in ninjutsu to better deceive his students.

And it is not just that. His experiences with the USMC... his iron shirt training.... his bodyguard experiences... his personal injuries... all these and more are claims he made without prompting and then refused to try and prove.

We would like to help Bruce to overcome the many mistakes and ignorance he has about the martial arts. But I think it only fair that he show the proper respect to those that are more skilled and knowledgeable than him and prove his sincerity and honesty by backing up everything he has found the time to mention here.

 

[47MartialMan]

B) If you are claiming I altered the photo cough up some proof or shut your cake hole.

I claim nothing but state a pic doesnt neccessarily mean its face value. A pic can be altered.

 

[47MartialMan]

1.) I am not the only Bujinkan member I know of that say we train under Hatsumi because we see nothing that indicates he is being completely honest about what he claims. At the same time, many of us are quite vocal about how much of our history should be treated as legend and not as fact. Mistakes happen and errors slip in over time.

2.) Take a look at the story of Aikido's founder, Morihei Ueshiba, doged bullets that was recently mentioned. Stanly Pranin did a search a few years back and could not find anything traceable to Ueshiba about the story or to when he was still alive. The story seems to have been started after he died by a starry- eyed student and not Ueshiba. But now it is part of his legend.

Compare this with Bruce. Can you honestly point me to one claim he has made that has been completly and honestly proven?

3.) I want to believe that there is a mistake and if he would only take the time to prove his own training history that we will see that he is being honest. But since he has not done that with any of his claims, I can't bring myself to help him correct his many mistakes for fear that I may be helping a fraud to make his story sound better.

4.) Let us look at his claims of training under a ninjutsu teacher. Hatsumi has a DVD of his teacher and him that I could show you. Bruce claims to have trained under a teacher named David Frost and can't seem to show that he even existed. Worse, he says that he saw a picture of Frost and Hatsumi training together when he was a live- in student of Frost in 1976. But since the number of non- Japanese training with Hatsumi prior to 1980 can be counted on one hand it was easy to determine that no one by that name had trained with him. So how can he explain his story of seeing a picture that could not have existed?

5.) I want to believe that there is a mistake and that Bruce's memory is failing him or any other mistake. But with just that on the table I can't risk the chance that I would be helping a man who made up his story of training in ninjutsu to better deceive his students.

6.) And it is not just that. His experiences with the USMC... his iron shirt training.... his bodyguard experiences... his personal injuries... all these and more are claims he made without prompting and then refused to try and prove.

7.) We would like to help Bruce to overcome the many mistakes and ignorance he has about the martial arts. But I think it only fair that he show the proper respect to those that are more skilled and knowledgeable than him and prove his sincerity and honesty by backing up everything he has found the time to mention here.

1.) True, look at the old Bodhidharma and Monks watching animals legend.

2.) A lot of things surface after. That is the strange part. Even if he has pics and certs, will this really prove/disprove anything?

3.) I had thought about this also. I had posted something like this on another thread-BC & Eagle Fedrtn?-perhaps?

4.) As CLFSean had shown, with a pic of someone famous, a pic doesnt completely tell alot. Its face value is left opened. So a pic may not surfice.

5.) Same as 3, knowedlge could be a grand or terrible thing.

6.) Is it much exaggeration, or complete lies?

7.) Although, I may not have a pic of every teacher I had, I have many on some other teachers. I still have personal info on preople, who were fellow students that trained with me from said teachers with or without pics on their existence. Bottom line, I didnt come here making claims about high title and rank, such as those very questionable and controversial. Again, Bruce has a certain mind-set and belief. Is it from him being deceived by others? Is it to demonstrate ego and self-worth?

 

[RRouuselot]

A) I claim nothing but state a pic doesnt neccessarily mean its face value.

B) A pic can be altered.

A) Again with your vague innuendos and implied accusations.


B) Really??? Ya think??? Wow! Who would of thought….

 

[Don Roley]

Robert, 47 martialman,

I am not speaking as a moderator here, but stop it. It is not a violation of my oath of secrecy to say that this is already being discussed and there may be judgements handed down at the way somebody finds ways to toss stones at others in various threads.

Stand back and await the decision. I myself am getting tired of the way that someone found a way to include your little feud into this unrelated thread through a calculated comment.

 

[47MartialMan]

Robert, 47 martialman,

I am not speaking as a moderator here, but stop it. It is not a violation of my oath of secrecy to say that this is already being discussed and there may be judgements handed down at the way somebody finds ways to toss stones at others in various threads.

Stand back and await the decision. I myself am getting tired of the way that someone found a way to include your little feud into this unrelated thread through a calculated comment.

I did welcome him back nicely, and he lashed at me.
I just thought he would have kept me on his ignore list.
Ok, I'll stop.

Sorry for the ache.

 

[Don Roley]

What part of my advice to stop did you not understand? Are you so eager to curry favor and get the last word in?

 

[RRouuselot]

So what's the verdict?
Does Calkins get sent to a FEMA Camp or not???

 

[Brother John]

BTW-the avatar is one of the greatest bands from the 80's

DANG Todd...

Gotta disagree with you there!
((But if Adam Ant is all we disagree about, we're doin fine))

Your Brother (who thinks Queen & Def Leppard were two of the best bands of the 80's)John

 

[The Kai]

I've changed, managed to put up Stuart Goddard. As head of the geek club, I remember being in h.s. ans being part of adam ant day (involved wearing a piece of white tape across your nose), ah well

 

[RRouuselot]

Stand back and await the decision. I myself am getting tired of the way that someone found a way to include your little feud into this unrelated thread through a calculated comment.

Actually I can save you guys the trouble of debating over whether to suspend me or boot me.
I will email Bob and tell him to close my account.
Honestly I am tired of some the crap that goes on here, tired of several of the members, tired of the BS claims, tired of some of the hypocrisy by a few of the members as well as a few of the Mods.

 

[eyebeams]

Don:

I am going to respond before one of the more excitable members of the arts you mention do and explain the differences.

Here's the thing: What, exactly, is the difference between a lie and a legend? How many generations pass before a lie turns into a charming story?

I am not the only Bujinkan member I know of that say we train under Hatsumi because we see nothing that indicates he is being completely honest about what he claims. At the same time, many of us are quite vocal about how much of our history should be treated as legend and not as fact. Mistakes happen and errors slip in over time.

This is a privilege you have because Toshitsugu Takamatsu is dead. If he was alive, talking about being Puyi's bodyguard and a shugenja magically curing him of tapeworms using kujikiri, what would you say to that?

I am well aware that in many cultures, the line between fact and allegory is not as sharply defined. I realize, for example, that Hatsumi may be talking in a combination of metaphysics and real occult belief (with a bit od deception tossed in for spice) when he claims that the tiny spirit of a samurai hangs out by his left ear. This is different from claims of fact, like:

* Toshistugu Takamatsu was the bodyguard of Puyi during the occupation of Manchuria.
* Doshin So is the 21st inheritor of a Shaolin lineage art whose Japanese name is Gwaimonken.
* Ed Parker studied and taught the use of sounds to activate physiological equivalents of chakras, but never wrote it down.
* Bruce Calkins studied Toad Style CMA and Iron Shirt Qigong.

Take a look at the story of Aikido's founder, Morihei Ueshiba, doged bullets that was recently mentioned. Stanly Pranin did a search a few years back and could not find anything traceable to Ueshiba about the story or to when he was still alive. The story seems to have been started after he died by a starry- eyed student and not Ueshiba. But now it is part of his legend.

If this was one wierd story in an otherwise reasonable common account of Ueshiba's life -- but it isn't. There are numerous allegations of Morihei Ueshiba saying fantastical things. The firing range incident is one thing; claims of precognition and the ability to teleport/vanish and reappear are others.

If you go to Hatsumi and ask him about what he claims, he will be totally open to the questions and answer them for you. He can produce not only certificates and scrolls from his teacher, but point you to interviews his teacher did with a newspaper where the fact that Hatsumi was his succesor was mentioned as well as third parties who witnessed the relationship they had.

Compare this with Bruce. Can you honestly point me to one claim he has made that has been completly and honestly proven?

I wasn't referring to the issue of Hatsumi's sokeship. I'm referring to the popular history of the Takamatsuden and Toshistugu Takamatsu himself (though allegations that Hatsumi seems to have subtly transformed from a reenactor to a alleged lineal descendant are worth noting, and 34th, when the Katori Shinto Ryu has fewer heads?). I'd say the primary difference is that Calkins doesn't have the education and eccentric panache to get away with nearly as much, and that (and this is an important point for later) the Takamatsuden have produced some exceptional martial artists and Takamatsu's skills have been recognized by other great martial artists.

I want to believe that there is a mistake and if he would only take the time to prove his own training history that we will see that he is being honest. But since he has not done that with any of his claims, I can't bring myself to help him correct his many mistakes for fear that I may be helping a fraud to make his story sound better.

Honestly? I have a feeling that Bruce Calkins would not be able to convince anyone of even true facts about his life over the internet. Calkins appears to have serious problems communicating via text, to the point where I seriously suspect (and this is as somebody who is an adult educator) that he is dysgraphic or dyslexic.

Let us look at his claims of training under a ninjutsu teacher. Hatsumi has a DVD of his teacher and him that I could show you. Bruce claims to have trained under a teacher named David Frost and can't seem to show that he even existed. Worse, he says that he saw a picture of Frost and Hatsumi training together when he was a live- in student of Frost in 1976. But since the number of non- Japanese training with Hatsumi prior to 1980 can be counted on one hand it was easy to determine that no one by that name had trained with him. So how can he explain his story of seeing a picture that could not have existed?

Easy. Frost lied to him. Do you really think it's hard for people to back their deception with misappropriated photographs? In fact, the most notable example of this fraud I can think of is Terry Dukes aka Nagaboshi Tomio. Dukes appropriated old pictures of other karateka and used a combination of misattribution, clever cropping and plaigiarism to make it look like he trained in Okinawa and demonstrated for the Dalai Lama.

I want to believe that there is a mistake and that Bruce's memory is failing him or any other mistake. But with just that on the table I can't risk the chance that I would be helping a man who made up his story of training in ninjutsu to better deceive his students.

Well, given your options are:

* Bruce trained with someone who taught fake ninjutsu
* Bruce lied about learning ninjutsu

. . . you can't actually help him. He's either a dupe or a liar. No available option legitimizes his training within the Bujinkan.

And it is not just that. His experiences with the USMC... his iron shirt training.... his bodyguard experiences... his personal injuries... all these and more are claims he made without prompting and then refused to try and prove.

The marine thing interests me because it's easy for a third party to actually check his service record (and there are, I believe, folks who do so as a public service to weed out fake vets). Plus, Calkins has so much trouble expressing himself that this could be his using fancy language to indicate that he trained informally with other marines when he was a marine (if he was).

As for iron shirt, "toad" style, etc. This is either an deliberate abuse or a misunderstanding of how CMA skills ought to be recorded. I currently study Mizongluohanquan (aka Lost Track Monk Style). My school includes the Mantis form Bung Bo and Tam Toi. This does not mean I can say I know Praying Mantis and an entire style of Islamic CMA, but if I listed them the wrong way, it might look like that. Lots of schools will teach one or part of one 8 Immortals form, 1 Monkey form or a bit of Iron Shirt Qigong, but this is not the same as dedicated training in Drunken style. Bruce is not the first guy who'd have extrapolated his knowledge of a form or exercise into a claim that he practices an entire system.

We would like to help Bruce to overcome the many mistakes and ignorance he has about the martial arts. But I think it only fair that he show the proper respect to those that are more skilled and knowledgeable than him and prove his sincerity and honesty by backing up everything he has found the time to mention here.

And this is where I don't agree at all. Nobody really has the right to demand face based on lineage. First of all, if you don't belong to the same lineage, what gives you the right? We aren't all one big, chummy hierarchy.

What *is* a lineage good for? A lineage is a way of finding out how likely it is anybody is likely to be any good. As I've said before, the majority of my training is an an art with no reliable lineage at all, but I respect lineages with proven practitioners. I've trained with Bujinkan BB J. Courtland Elliot, and despite my feelings that some of the Buj history is a tad dodgy, he is a top-notch martial artist. I have the utmost respect for Mas Tsuruoka's Chitoryu line because I've sparred with a few of their yudansha. And I'm proud to be a student of one of Robert Walther's students, because he's amazing.

But I do believe that this situation is in some way a parody of the unfortunate facts of lineage in many martial arts, and it should inspire people to ask themselves if their lineage concerns trumpt the realities of training. Asking for respect based on lineage? Meh. Respect comes from good martial arts; a lineage lends the credit earned by good martial artists to others and helps signify whether or not the cultural practice is legitimate -- that is *all* it does. It does not make you an inherently better martial artist. Ask for face on the basis of lineage alone -- especially from someone outside your own -- is not especially appropriate.

I see your point, though. Calkins reminds me of Simon Olaf. Olaf was a talented, self-taught martial artist who was, for a time, associated with Ed Parker. Then the lineage bug but him and he turned himself into a fraudulent "kung fu master." The pity is that according to former students, he was actually pretty good before he went crazy (and the kenpo guys he left behind are actually pretty good, though many of the "Temple Kung Fu" guys aren't.

I can see Calkins losing it Simon Olaf style, but I think this is more a *function* of lineage worship (and the need for validation outside of pure skill) than disrespect for it. I think he's an extreme example of very common problems.

As for the man, he looks like a kenpo guy with a fairly severe untreated learning disability who, through a combination of being duped, rose-coloured glasses and a touch of deception, has convinced himself that his "kenpo with extras" ought to be a style of its own.

 

[Bester]

I doubt Calky will be back, or bother to respond. His credibility is now beyond saving.
His history is illusion, his facts are fiction, his excuses flimsy.

It's like the old story. "I slept with 5 women last night" (Translation "we slept, no nookie") "I was in bed with my wife and her best friend" (Translation "The puppy joined us".) etc.

5 minutes of showing some ground-pounder a wristlock becomes "I train Marines".
Attending the same training camp becomes "I taught with..."

I don't know what his skills are. If he's a man, he'll show up in July.
I doubt he's a man.

Everything that can be said about him, has been said. He's taken up way too much of my time. He appears to be going away. Let him. We don't need his kind here.

I much prefer to discuss things with those with experience, not fantasys.