Mou Meng Gung Fu: The Nameless Art

[mograph]

I do have many various home training videos and pictures on my phone and I don't mind sharing them as soon as I learn how. I'm still new to the site and still rather new to this phone but once I figure it all out then sure, it would be my pleasure. (I tried to upload a video just now but it said the file was too large). One of the biggest things that others will notice from my videos and pictures is [...]. I will try to upload some of these things as soon as I get a chance.

I tried to upload some pictures for everyone to give you all a better idea about myself and my style. I'm not exactly sure what else you were expecting to see or learn. You can't expect me to just give my style away to people I barely know or have never even met before. [...] I do not have a YouTube channel or anything like that.

Um ... so you no longer want to upload videos? What changed your mind?

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Um ... so you no longer want to upload videos? What changed your mind?

I don't mind sharing one or two videos with this MA forum. I never had a YouTube channel. All of my videos are recorded on my phone, so they aren't the best quality. The problem I have is like I said before, I'm still new to this phone and also to this site. Technology is changing so rapidly and I'm not very good with computers or electronics. I tried to upload some videos to this site, but I kept getting error notifications so I decided to upload some pictures for you all instead. That way you could at least get some idea of who I am and what I do.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

I feel I should probably say this. If anyone is looking for some "secret" training methods or "special" techniques in my style, they're not going to find it. There is nothing really unique or special about this particular martial art. Most of what I can show you has already been done before by other members on this site, so I don't really have anything new to offer you. There are only two requirements in this system. One is that you learn it and practice it. The other requirement is that you just keep learning it and practicing it. That's the only secret.

 

[DanT]

Some of the CMA elements in Wumingquan include:

- Siu Nim Tau
- Dok Gerk Siu Nim Tau
- Jee Yau Bok Gik
- Chi Sau
- Chi Gerk
- Gor Sau
- Lin Sil Die Dar
- Chung Seen
- Chum Jong
- Ji Gok Geng
- Duen Geng
- Tui Sau
- Bong An Chi Sao
- Don Chi Gerk
- Sui Jow
- Ying Jow / Fu Jow
- Chui Ying
- Churng Wai
- Da Sa Bao
- Dit Yeung Juk
- Faan Sau
- Pak Sao Ngoy Da
- Jik Chung Choi

Chung Kuen, Lop Da, Pak Da, Bong Da, Tan Da, Jik Tek, Biu Ma and Biu Sau are all fundamental core teachings or techniques in Mou Meng Kuen.

These are mostly Southern Fujian / Wing Chun methods and techniques. How long have you trained Wing Chun for? Also have you studied any northern styles? I find that the northern styles (Lohan, Cha, Chang) in my personal experience compliment southern styles well.

 

[Buka]

I don't mind sharing one or two videos with this MA forum. I never had a YouTube channel. All of my videos are recorded on my phone, so they aren't the best quality. The problem I have is like I said before, I'm still new to this phone and also to this site. Technology is changing so rapidly and I'm not very good with computers or electronics. I tried to upload some videos to this site, but I kept getting error notifications so I decided to upload some pictures for you all instead. That way you could at least get some idea of who I am and what I do.

I feel you, brother. It only took me six years on here, and Dirty Dog being kind enough to point it out, that I didn't actually need a picture hosting site to post pictures on our forum.

I know, I'm retarded, sue me.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

These are mostly Southern Fujian / Wing Chun methods and techniques. How long have you trained Wing Chun for? Also have you studied any northern styles? I find that the northern styles (Lohan, Cha, Chang) in my personal experience compliment southern styles well.

I'm terrible when it comes to the Chinese names of moves and forms, which ones from that list come from Fujian? All the ones I found were either from Wing Chun or JKD.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

These are mostly Southern Fujian / Wing Chun methods and techniques. How long have you trained Wing Chun for? Also have you studied any northern styles? I find that the northern styles (Lohan, Cha, Chang) in my personal experience compliment southern styles well.

You know your stuff well my friend. I actually was a student of Yip Family style Wing Chun Kuen for about five years and then I practiced Hung Suen style WCK for about another 2 years after I moved away. As I mentioned before, Wumingquan was heavily influenced by WCK at the core level. But actually, I would have to say that it was probably even more influenced by "Non-Classical Gung Fu" which is a style very similar but different to Wing Chun, just with similar words and techniques. I did a lot of sensitivity drills and sticking hands exercises with the founder of that system, but unfortunately he passed away in 2012 and I never received a certificate in that system. I had several WCK teachers in the early 2000's era from several different schools. Some exchanging of styles did take place and it was a great learning experience for everyone who was involved.

I do not have any formal training in any northern Shaolin styles that I am aware of. I gained a lot of knowledge and exposure to a wide variety of TCMA styles over the past 20 years. I'm not even 100% sure about the names of all those styles. I had a few JKD instructors at one time, but most of them have since passed away. I was told that JKD borrowed some elements from northern Shaolin styles, though how much I'm not exactly sure. That was also many years ago, but I kept some of those JKD elements with me throughout the years and a lot of those WCK/JKD elements can still be seen in my style today. So you and Midnight-shadow are both correct to make that assumption. Good eyes.

 

[oaktree]

Here are some fun facts about the name Wu Ming depending on the Hanzi:
无名：indefinable, indescribable
无明：Ignorance and delusional
污名：bad reputation

Just saying some people may think when you say your art to a native speaker and don't get the tone right they might think your art is the art of ignorance

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Haha that's funny.

I didn't know that. Thank you. It was meant to be read as 无名 (wú-míng). That translates to Standard English as "no-name" or namelessness. I would say that's equivalent to being "indefinable" and "indescribable" but now I hope I'm pronouncing it right. How do you pronounce it correctly? I am not fluent in Chinese languages and dialects. This might cause some to ask me, why then did I choose a Chinese name? But again, I was just paying my respects to Chinese martial arts. It's not all Chinese, but a great majority of it is. Again some of the non-Chinese elements in Wumingquan are borrowed from Judo or Aikido, Jujitsu or Jujutsu, Boxing, Wrestling, JKD, MMA and bare-knuckle boxing. However, most of the techniques I practice are very basic and can be found having many variations within several different martial arts around the entire world.

 

[oaktree]

Chinese Pronunciation - Tones - ChinesePod
It is with a second tone so like asking a question.
I think one of the best Hanzi and Kanji dictionaries online
Cojak Hanzi Dictionary: About the Software
Pleco is a great Chinese dictionary I use it often with my wife(native of Zhuhai)
Pleco Chinese Dictionary - Android Apps on Google Play
Gambatte with your new art.

 

[Jenna]

There will never be Mou Meng Gung Fu DVD's for sale. Mou Meng Gung Fu is not a professional business, and although students could probably learn a lot about this style by watching videos or looking at pictures and reading books, etc. I feel like the only way to truly learn any martial art is through personal training. Every single practitioner in this system has trained with me in person. Not a single penny or profit has been made at this time in over 10 years. Here we do not judge people by their abilities or their wallets. You can not buy my system. The only way to learn it is in person. We judge people by their moral character and eagerness to become better. For that reason, Mou Meng Gung Fu will never be taught openly to the public.

Some people might say that after 30+ posts in this thread, they still don't know anything about me or my style. I tried to upload some pictures for everyone to give you all a better idea about myself and my style. I'm not exactly sure what else you were expecting to see or learn. You can't expect me to just give my style away to people I barely know or have never even met before. I'm no Einstein but I'm not that foolish. Let's be fair. I do not have a YouTube channel or anything like that. Someone asked for some pictures and I gave you some pictures. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask and I will try to answer to the best of my ability. Thank you for your interest.

I say just do your thing how you do it and fret less about persuading the world
Since you invite question I should like to ask why you say: "You can't expect me to just give my style away to people I barely know".. That sound like your martial art it is not for sharing? Me I would have not time for persuading any one toward my art whose mind seem to me closed or whose nature in questioning seem to me argumentative.. is that why you would not give your style away to people you barely know? or some thing besides?? and in that case what have you established as your criteria for giving it away? Thank you

 

[Tony Dismukes]

my question is why. let be honest, by your own admission your art is basic and nothing special. mediocre at best. you say you are not going to teach what you do publicly, so why are you putting a name on it and coming to a martial art forum to introduce it and talk about it? it kinda screams ego and possible narcissist to me. im all for someone creating or doing their own thing, thats what i am doing. but i have more than 30 years training in traditional systems and i felt i could bring something of value to the table. i suspect your rather young compared to some of us old folk here and thats great but i hope you realize that by doing your own mediocre style you will never rise above that level of mediocrity. why not train in a system you think is really great? at least you would get really good at something.

Since I've never met or worked out with Mou Meng, I have no idea of what is skill level is like or how well his personal system holds together. Might be great, might be crappy, might be average. Who knows.

I do appreciate that he's not trying to advertise himself with inflated, self-awarded ranks or dubious stories about winning dozens of life-or-death battles, nor is he insisting that his art contains all the best parts of other arts with none of the flaws. That puts him ahead of 90% of the people out there I see who have created and named their own martial art.

Well, my philosophy is the same as others, just like my punches and my kicks. I just chose to call it Gung Fu to be honest, because I like Chinese martial arts. (And because I used to practice CMA, moreso than other styles). Wumingquan incorporates a lot of the same techniques, methods and theories found in the southern Chinese Boxing systems in the Hong Kong area. I suppose you could attach it to their Taoist or Buddhist philosophies. As for me personally, I was influenced by Bruce Lee's philosophy, like everyone else.

In this case, I think Midnight Shadow was asking not so much about cultural/religious philosophies like Taoism or Buddhism, but more about the underlying principles which tie your system together. Tactical focus, principles of power generation, training priorities, that sort of thing. As has been pointed out many times on this forum, techniques are just particular expressions of the underlying principles of a martial art. The reason why (for example) Wing Chun teaches punching differently than Western boxing comes down to the differing principles and priorities in the two systems.

Can you talk a bit about what those principles would be for your system?

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

I say just do your thing how you do it and fret less about persuading the world
Since you invite question I should like to ask why you say: "You can't expect me to just give my style away to people I barely know".. That sound like your martial art it is not for sharing? Me I would have not time for persuading any one toward my art whose mind seem to me closed or whose nature in questioning seem to me argumentative.. is that why you would not give your style away to people you barely know? or some thing besides?? and in that case what have you established as your criteria for giving it away? Thank you

Thank you Jenna, I will try to answer this question the best I can.

I don't teach Mou Meng Gung Fu to anyone except for my closest family and friends. There are a number of reasons why. One of the biggest reasons being that I am not a Master of Gung Fu, so I do not want to give anyone the wrong impression. I am just a fellow student. Another reason I do not teach Mou Meng Gung Fu to outsiders is because some of the techniques can be dangerous if done incorrectly or carelessly. I don't want anyone to get hurt. The only way to pass this system on correctly is through very small circles in one-on-one training. I never train with more than two or three other people at a time. We're talking about a very small private class with 2-3 students at maximum. Mou Meng Gung Fu wasn't designed for mass production, but for very high quality training in a short period of time. Practiced correctly, someone should be proficient in this martial art after only a few years of basic training. So that's one reason why we don't share it with the masses. I wanted to keep it pure and simple. Another reason I don't teach my art openly to other people is because it's a family style. Mou Meng Gung Fu is a dangerous system which requires humility, trust, loyalty, honesty and a good moral character. Some of the techniques are meant for damaging nerves and breaking bones, so it's important for students in this system to have discipline and self-restraint. Mou Meng Gung Fu isn't actually meant to injure anyone, but is meant for longevity and the preservation of life. So it's important to keep it within the family. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Mou Meng Gung Fu has several principles and training methods, some of which are very different and contradictory to others, even within our own system. It's not as easy as 1-2-3 in this style of martial arts. Some things are easier said than done, but in this case it's the opposite. Mou Meng Gung Fu employs punches that are similar to Wing Chung Gung Fu punches. We also have sparring methods similar to Wing Chun's sparring methods. However, we also employ punches that are more similar to Western Boxing, and we have different sparring methods which don't look anything at all like Wing Chun, so I'm afraid it's difficult to explain our core principles and structure because we don't really have one. Balance is our philosophy and fluidity is our structure.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

In case this is your first time to this thread, I mentioned earlier that MMK has only one form or taolu. It's an empty-hand form called Sil Lum Tao (lit. "Shaolin Way") and it is a very important, integral part of this system. Sil Lum Tao is not for fighting or full-contact sparring. It is only for training. Most of our Wumingquan training "is" sparring, which can sometimes be very rigorous and hard on the practitioner. There are a lot of un-set fast movements in this style, so we counter balance it with Sil Lum Tao, which is very slow and works on building internal power to compliment the external. There are 108 movements in our method of Sil Lum Tao, which focus on several principles and theories such as the centerline theory, immovable elbow theory, simultaneous attack and defense, bridging and sticking. These principles and theories makeup the bulk of MMK training. Practioners in this style will normally practice this form very slowly, which helps them to meditate and relax after a hard workout. Sil Lum Tao is gender neutral and does not require much speed, strength or flexibility. This makes it easier for everyone to learn, regardless of age or disability. Qigong is incorporated into our Sil Lum Tao form as well, with different muscles being tensed or relaxed at different times in order to promote health, fitness, longevity and muscle memory.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

As I mentioned before, MMK (short for Mou Meng Kuen) has no trophies or ranking system. The goal in this style is a very personal journey, and that will differ from person to person. So we don't really practice MMK to beat other people. We practice MMK to beat the worst enemy of all, which is ourselves and our own limitations. Sparring is a major part of this system and makes up about 80% of the training. In fact, it's such an important part of this system that we have actually broken it down into several different ways of sparring. We have boxing, kicking, kickboxing, wrestling, trapping hands drills, sticking hands and sticking legs exercises, sensitivity drills and even simulation sparring (with one hand, one leg or blindfolded to simulate fighting while being injured). Combined all of that with the slower SLT form training, and you will have a very good understanding of what we do in Mou Meng Kuen.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

I mentioned just earlier in another thread that boardgame Chess is also a part of Wumingquan training. In fact it is a requirement to learn Chess when practicing this martial art, as the game has much to offer as far as personal growth and development. Every practitioner in this style is an active Chess player, and we play the game for many reasons. One reason is for light conversation, personal reflection and philosophical discussion. Another reason is for the challenge. We use Chess to symbolise different theories, principles and concepts when fighting. For example, the idea of MMK is to control the centerline. The idea of Chess is to control the center of the board. So there are a lot of training tools we utilize in Chess to help compliment our training in Mou Meng Kuen, something that you probably don't see in a lot of other martial arts.

 

[vince1]

So you are basically a self defense teacher incorporating a variety self defense techniques from other martial arts. My sifu has black belts from six different types of martial arts and teaches self defense using the best self defense techniques from all six. He didn't give it a name but calls the school by his first and last name self defense school.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

So you are basically a self defense teacher incorporating a variety self defense techniques from other martial arts. My sifu has black belts from six different types of martial arts and teaches self defense using the best self defense techniques from all six. He didn't give it a name but calls the school by his first and last name self defense school.

That makes perfect sense. I used to refer to my system as Wu Wei Gung Fu for a short time period (Wu Wei is my name in Chinese), until I met the founder of Non-Classical Gung Fu who showed me a different style that was also called Wu Wei (meaning "non-action"). After that, I stopped calling my style Wu Wei Gung Fu because I didn't want to step on anyone's toes or give the wrong impression. I chose to name it Mou Meng Gung Fu because nobody else uses that name snd it's easier to distinguish.

 

[DaleDugas]

I am seeing a bunch of Wing Chun terms being thrown out with all manner of ******** fortune cookie speak with a smidgeon of Chinese mysticism thrown in to add some flavor.

When you can name all those techniques, you are not nameless.

Also, if all you know are techniques and not the concepts behind the techniques, as well as the science and physics behind them, you really should not be teaching. Concepts need to be understood, not technique.