Mou Meng Gung Fu: The Nameless Art

[DanT]

Mou Meng Kuen, also known as Wú-míng ch‘üan or Wumingquan (translated to Standard English as "Nameless Fist" or "Nameless Boxing") falls in the category of non-classical martial arts. Wumingquan is a modernized self-defense system, not to be confused with Wuxingquan ("Shapeless Boxing") and other older traditional Chinese martial arts with similar names or meanings. For over a decade, this Gung Fu system existed only as a nameless series of personal experiences, training experiments and knowledge exchanges between several martial artists with different ranks and styles all originating from different schools. Only recently have I actually started to refer to this no-name skill as Mou Meng Gung Fu, after some friends of mine suggested that I give it a name. Mou Meng Kuen or Nameless Boxing is a very basic self-defense system which promotes physical fitness and longevity. Nameless Boxing is not an all-encompassing martial art, nor was it designed to deal with every aspect of martial arts training. Nameless Boxing does not require much physical strength, flexibility, training time or training space to learn. This system was developed to accommodate every student regardless of age, gender, height, weight or disability. The techniques were designed to be simple and easy to learn in a short time period. Nameless Boxing incorporates kicking, boxing and wrestling techniques with an emphasis on stand-up fighting or kickboxing. The techniques in this system are similar to those found in other Gung Fu systems, but are actually a conglomeration of elements taken from several different styles including even some techniques from non-Chinese martial arts. Hei Gung or Qigong training is a big part of Mou Meng Gung Fu along with proper dieting, meditation and Hatha Yoga exercise. The stances and footwork in this system are similar to what you might find in southern Shaolin short-fist Chinese Boxing styles, and in fact you could probably even classify Mou Meng Gung Fu as a southern style. There are no ranks or trophies in this system. Practitioners of Wumingquan are refered to simply as brothers and sisters, juniors and seniors. There are no "masters" in this style of Gung Fu, as I the founder do not claim to be a master of martial arts, nor do I have any students apart from my own family and friends. I will most likely add more to the description of Nameless Boxing as time goes on, but right now I just wanted to present my art to the rest of the internet MA circle since there's really no other mention of it elsewhere that I am aware of. If anyone has any questions about Mou Meng Gung Fu or about myself, feel free to ask and I will try to provide answers to the best of my ability. Thank you again for allowing me to discuss my style.

What styles have you personally studied and for how long have you studied them and under whom have you studied?

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

my question is why. let be honest, by your own admission your art is basic and nothing special. mediocre at best. you say you are not going to teach what you do publicly, so why are you putting a name on it and coming to a martial art forum to introduce it and talk about it? it kinda screams ego and possible narcissist to me. im all for someone creating or doing their own thing, thats what i am doing. but i have more than 30 years training in traditional systems and i felt i could bring something of value to the table. i suspect your rather young compared to some of us old folk here and thats great but i hope you realize that by doing your own mediocre style you will never rise above that level of mediocrity. why not train in a system you think is really great? at least you would get really good at something.

Thank you for your response. I'll try to answer your question the best I can.

I no longer see styles, so I no longer think in terms of "this style is better than that style" or what have you. I'm not really in the martial arts to compete, I'm just in it to train and better myself. It's a very personal thing for me, which is why I don't teach publicly. And I will be the first to tell you that my style isn't everyone's cup of tea. I'm not trying to build a clan like the Gracies, or go out and look for fights against other martial artists. My system offers basic self-defense training. Nothing more and nothing less. The beauty of my style is in its simplicity. I never said it was all-encompassing or the best style out there. My style wasn't designed to make people the best. It was designed to make people better and to arm them with something so that they are not completely defenseless if they ever find themselves in a situation. I encourage everyone to go out and learn new styles and new methods, because my art is open to learning new things. It's very simple and open to improvement. But I also encourage people to master the basics before attempting to go out and learn new things, and that's really all I have to offer is the fundamental basics of self-defense. If someone were to learn only a single takedown, but then practice that one takedown for several years until they have mastered it, then what good will ten thousand punches and kicks be against that one takedown? That's kind of the philosophy that I have when I train in martial arts. I hope that answers your question.

The reason I decided to join this MA forum is to be around people that I can identity with. It's fun to talk about martial arts. And of course, yes, I wanted to present my style to the MA circle so that others will get a better understanding of me as well. I couldn't come in as a TCMA practitioner, or as a MMA practitioner, or as a JKD practitioner or what have you. So I came forward as a Wumingquan practitioner. This is my style, as opposed to what they do.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

What styles have you personally studied and for how long have you studied them and under whom have you studied?

Thank you for your response.

I have about 25+ years of training off and on in different martial arts circles around the globe. There are times when I would study hard and train very hard, and then there were times when I stopped training for a while, then went back to training hard. Sometimes I was invited to different schools to train in different styles. I have a lot of good friends in the MA world, not all of them have the same style or teachings. So my art doesn't really have a linear family tree or lineage like some other styles do. Everyone I trained with has had something new and different to offer as far as my own personal development is concerned. Sometimes I train with masters or even grandmasters, and sometimes I train with beginners and those with no experience. Now the actual foundation of Wumingquan was established about 10 years ago, but at that time it had no name, we just called it "martial arts" even though we had our own curricula at that time. It wasn't until December 2017 that I actually coined the term Wumingquan in reference to this style. Since then, that's what we call it now.

 

[DanT]

Thank you for your response.

I have about 25+ years of training off and on in different martial arts circles around the globe. There are times when I would study hard and train very hard, and then there were times when I stopped training for a while, then went back to training hard. Sometimes I was invited to different schools to train in different styles. I have a lot of good friends in the MA world, not all of them have the same style or teachings. So my art doesn't really have a linear family tree or lineage like some other styles do. Everyone I trained with has had something new and different to offer as far as my own personal development is concerned. Sometimes I train with masters or even grandmasters, and sometimes I train with beginners and those with no experience. Now the actual foundation of Wumingquan was established about 10 years ago, but at that time it had no name, we just called it "martial arts" even though we had our own curricula at that time. It wasn't until December 2017 that I actually coined the term Wumingquan in reference to this style. Since then, that's what we call it now.

Very nice. May I ask which styles specifically you incorporated into Wumingquan?

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Very nice. May I ask which styles specifically you incorporated into Wumingquan?

I didn't incorporate any styles into Wumingquan, only the techniques. Wumingquan has only one form or taolu. Everything else is mostly two-man drills and sparring. So the answer is not as straight forward as one might expect, because there were a lot of different styles and teachings over the years. Wumingquan borrows ideas from a lot of different styles, not always evenly either. Some styles will have had more influence than others, and that will reflect in the way a Wumingquan practitioner focusses himself and trains. But as far as the very basics and what we have written, Wumingquan in its current state was influenced by TCMA, MMA, JKD, Judo or Aikido and bare-knuckle boxing. That's not all there is to it, but of all the styles I came into contact with, I would have to say that those 4-5 styles probably had the most influence. TCMA being mostly a reference to the southern Shaolin short-fist styles like Wing Chun Kuen and other styles associated with the Five Elders.

On a side note, it's always funny when I train with my buddies and people approach us wanting to learn Wumingquan, because they always go to the biggest person in our group. The biggest person in my circle right now is a man who weighs about 400 lbs. Everyone always thinks he's the headmaster because he's so big and in Wumingquan we don't wear any special uniforms or belts to distinguish ranks, so people tend to automatically assume that the biggest student must be the headmaster. We've actually had some fun with people because of that. I'm rather small compared to some of the guys I train with, so it throws people off when they walk up and discover that the 400 lbs wrestler is actually a student of the 140 lbs. kickboxer. It makes for some fun pranks. Good laughs. I love my family.

 

[jobo]

my question is why. let be honest, by your own admission your art is basic and nothing special. mediocre at best. you say you are not going to teach what you do publicly, so why are you putting a name on it and coming to a martial art forum to introduce it and talk about it? it kinda screams ego and possible narcissist to me. im all for someone creating or doing their own thing, thats what i am doing. but i have more than 30 years training in traditional systems and i felt i could bring something of value to the table. i suspect your rather young compared to some of us old folk here and thats great but i hope you realize that by doing your own mediocre style you will never rise above that level of mediocrity. why not train in a system you think is really great? at least you would get really good at something.

I think tha
t's a bit harsh to be honest. He hasnt described his system as having mediocrity, rather its a simple system to provide self defence taken from the best other styles have to offer. If I were to be critic of traditional martial art for self defence, it would be that there is to much flim flam, to many graceful movements with no payoff , to many variations' on the same thing, techniques that take years to master, if you ever get there, when you want protection now. You could cheerfully throw away 90% of ( nearly )any of them and actually have a better system for self defence

 

[hoshin1600]

I think tha
t's a bit harsh to be honest. He hasnt described his system as having mediocrity, rather its a simple system to provide self defence taken from the best other styles have to offer. If I were to be critic of traditional martial art for self defence, it would be that there is to much flim flam, to many graceful movements with no payoff , to many variations' on the same thing, techniques that take years to master, if you ever get there, when you want protection now. You could cheerfully throw away 90% of ( nearly )any of them and actually have a better system for self defence

I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest. If he is enjoying what he is doing then that's great. But by his descriptions and answers I'm reading mediocre, I'm not feeling excited or particularly interested. This may have more to do with personality or writing skill then the art itself but the posts by the OP are not really answering the questions. The replies seem wishy washy. To me it feels like the art is most likely a reflection of his answers , not well organized and thought out.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest. If he is enjoying what he is doing then that's great. But by his descriptions and answers I'm reading mediocre, I'm not feeling excited or particularly interested. This may have more to do with personality or writing skill then the art itself but the posts by the OP are not really answering the questions. The replies seem wishy washy. To me it feels like the art is most likely a reflection of his answers , not well organized and thought out.

You kmow, when I first read the OP I had similar thoughts, but after reflecting on it I realised that it doesn't matter. As the OP said, he's not looking to market this to the masses, or make it seem like the best thing since sliced bread. The style doesn't seem impressive or exciting because it's not meant to be. It is simply the culmination of one person's Martial Arts experience.

I actually really admire the OP for this, because he has taken his years of traditional Martial Arts training and created his own fighting style from it. This to me is a much purer form of Martial Arts than many traditional styles because it is adapted to the person using it.

 

[oaktree]

You kmow, when I first read the OP I had similar thoughts, but after reflecting on it I realised that it doesn't matter. As the OP said, he's not looking to market this to the masses, or make it seem like the best thing since sliced bread. The style doesn't seem impressive or exciting because it's not meant to be. It is simply the culmination of one person's Martial Arts experience.

I actually really admire the OP for this, because he has taken his years of traditional Martial Arts training and created his own fighting style from it. This to me is a much purer form of Martial Arts than many traditional styles because it is adapted to the person using it.

Um for someone not about marketing and all that his avatar seems to do the opposite I mean my avatar is of two Asian lesbians kissing but that doesn't mean I am advertising Asian lesbians....well not yet at least

 

[Steve]

I think we have some narcissists on this forum. What's the problem with one more?

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest. If he is enjoying what he is doing then that's great. But by his descriptions and answers I'm reading mediocre, I'm not feeling excited or particularly interested. This may have more to do with personality or writing skill then the art itself but the posts by the OP are not really answering the questions. The replies seem wishy washy. To me it feels like the art is most likely a reflection of his answers , not well organized and thought out.

Is it really that I'm not answering questions though? Or am I not giving the answers that you expected? Actually I appreciate your honesty and straight forwardness. I'm not even offended by it. I apologize if I sound defensive or even passive. The truth is, my style is just that, another style. Sure I could be boastful and try to put on this persona like I'm the King of Gung Fu or the Champion of Hong Kong, but I would be lying if I said that. To be really real with you and also with myself, I must admit that my style isn't that advanced. In fact, the very thing you look down on is the very thing we look up to in this system. Someone described it earlier as an oxymoronic name for a style. But it's that very nothingness and somethingness that describes my art. Simplicity is the goal in this method of training. For other schools, it might be too simple. But for us, it's the foundation we are most concerned with.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Um for someone not about marketing and all that his avatar seems to do the opposite I mean my avatar is of two Asian lesbians kissing but that doesn't mean I am advertising Asian lesbians....well not yet at least

Well you are right to say that I am somewhat marketing my martial art, in a way. I do not own a business licence. I don't own a school. I don't teach publicly, or to outsiders with no previous martial arts experience apart from my own family and friends. But by joining this MA circle, I had no choice but to market myself because that's the whole point of being here. I didn't want to lie to anyone and claim lineage to anyone or act like I'm a master of some style that's already on the board, because I'm not really a master of any of your styles. I've probably seen them or trained with people who practice those styles, but I am not a master. The only thing I've mastered is myself, and my own style. But even that too is debatable. So really, it's just a matter of perception. And you are correct to say that my avatar is an advertising logo. You are incorrect to say that yours is not. But I'm not judgmental anyway so it doesn't really matter. I like criticism. It helps me to reflect.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Still no luck with the videos, but here are some more pictures for you all to look at. Unlike the last pictures, here we are practicing bare-knuckle with shoes on. You might notice the difference in the style too. The first set of pictures I showed you are more like MMA sparring. These ones are more like TCMA sparring. Both ways are incorporated in Wu Ming Kung Fu. (I apologize for the blurriness, but this was unrehearsed live-action freestyle sparring and the camera wasn't fast enough to capture every motion).

 

[hoshin1600]

You kmow, when I first read the OP I had similar thoughts, but after reflecting on it I realised that it doesn't matter. As the OP said, he's not looking to market this to the masses, or make it seem like the best thing since sliced bread. The style doesn't seem impressive or exciting because it's not meant to be. It is simply the culmination of one person's Martial Arts experience.

I actually really admire the OP for this, because he has taken his years of traditional Martial Arts training and created his own fighting style from it. This to me is a much purer form of Martial Arts than many traditional styles because it is adapted to the person using it.

I agree with you. I have done something similar, and when I see someone else being creative I get excited and want to engage with them and find out all about it. But I'm not getting that dynamic. After 33 posts in the thread I still don't know anything about the OP and his art. Or why he created it rather than study an existing style, his motivations or his own personal philosophy about martial arts.

 

[Buka]

I think we have some narcissists on this forum. What's the problem with one more?

Can we get shirts?

 

[oaktree]

Well you are right to say that I am somewhat marketing my martial art, in a way. I do not own a business licence. I don't own a school. I don't teach publicly, or to outsiders with no previous martial arts experience apart from my own family and friends. But by joining this MA circle, I had no choice but to market myself because that's the whole point of being here. I didn't want to lie to anyone and claim lineage to anyone or act like I'm a master of some style that's already on the board, because I'm not really a master of any of your styles. I've probably seen them or trained with people who practice those styles, but I am not a master. The only thing I've mastered is myself, and my own style. But even that too is debatable. So really, it's just a matter of perception. And you are correct to say that my avatar is an advertising logo. You are incorrect to say that yours is not. But I'm not judgmental anyway so it doesn't really matter. I like criticism. It helps me to reflect.

What I mean is this, You created a name(though for someone who understands Chinese I think it sounds cartoonish) You created a logo and call it 无为non classical martial arts the nameless art. 17 years on martial art forums and I have seen many people come on who say they created their own art and though you do not own a business or teach outsiders who is to say down the line a message on a forum 5 years from now we will be asked is the Mou meng gungfu dvd set worth purchasing? Maybe I am more jaded having been through these types of discussions before especially with people who use weird Chinese names and or Japanese names for their made up style.

 

[DanT]

What techniques form the core or wumingquan? For example I might say for Wing Chun:

1.Straigh Punch
2. Lap Da
3. Pak Da
4. Tan Da
5. Front kick

Or for N.Shaolin:

1. Straight punch
2. Hook Punch
3. Windmill Punch
4. Double Gorilla Punch
5. Roundhouse Kick

What about for wumingquan what are the 5 core techniques would you say?

 

[mograph]

Have you created a YouTube or Vimeo channel? You could then post the links here.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

There will never be Mou Meng Gung Fu DVD's for sale. Mou Meng Gung Fu is not a professional business, and although students could probably learn a lot about this style by watching videos or looking at pictures and reading books, etc. I feel like the only way to truly learn any martial art is through personal training. Every single practitioner in this system has trained with me in person. Not a single penny or profit has been made at this time in over 10 years. Here we do not judge people by their abilities or their wallets. You can not buy my system. The only way to learn it is in person. We judge people by their moral character and eagerness to become better. For that reason, Mou Meng Gung Fu will never be taught openly to the public.

Some people might say that after 30+ posts in this thread, they still don't know anything about me or my style. I tried to upload some pictures for everyone to give you all a better idea about myself and my style. I'm not exactly sure what else you were expecting to see or learn. You can't expect me to just give my style away to people I barely know or have never even met before. I'm no Einstein but I'm not that foolish. Let's be fair. I do not have a YouTube channel or anything like that. Someone asked for some pictures and I gave you some pictures. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask and I will try to answer to the best of my ability. Thank you for your interest.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Some of the CMA elements in Wumingquan include:

- Siu Nim Tau
- Dok Gerk Siu Nim Tau
- Jee Yau Bok Gik
- Chi Sau
- Chi Gerk
- Gor Sau
- Lin Sil Die Dar
- Chung Seen
- Chum Jong
- Ji Gok Geng
- Duen Geng
- Tui Sau
- Bong An Chi Sao
- Don Chi Gerk
- Sui Jow
- Ying Jow / Fu Jow
- Chui Ying
- Churng Wai
- Da Sa Bao
- Dit Yeung Juk
- Faan Sau
- Pak Sao Ngoy Da
- Jik Chung Choi

Chung Kuen, Lop Da, Pak Da, Bong Da, Tan Da, Jik Tek, Biu Ma and Biu Sau are all fundamental core teachings or techniques in Mou Meng Kuen.