Most important Kata

[Brandon Fisher]

Not so much the answer as the interpertation they give you of the kata.

 

[Cirdan]

I am still learning the Pinan and tough I have studied the more advanced kata a bit I have no idea wich one is of greatest importance. However what you learn above black belt is generally considered to be way more important once you have a solid foundation to build upon.

Personally, right now, I`d chose Kushanku for my only kata beacuse you find a lot to work with there and much stuff from the Pinan series.

 

[Makalakumu]

I know that I suggested Bassai above, but in reality, I couldn't pick one kata in particular. I would say that the most important kata is the one that you fully understand.

 

[Henderson]

Now here's another question, do you think you can learn something about a person's understanding of their system based on what they answer?

That seemed the intention of this thread from the beginning. :lfao:

 

[jujutsu_indonesia]

Wado - any of the Jujutsu kata that are hopefully being preserved somewhere and not just the Shotokan Kata that Otsuka Sensei taught. I think the Jujutsu is the key to the bunkai and oyo of the kata as Otsuka Sensei taught them.

-wes tasker

Unfortunately there are not much solo / one man kata of jujutsu left in the Wado system, what's left only some solo training forms on how to use several hand strikes within one second remaining, and some training drills on how to use the knife and sword.

My sensei taught a lot of paired / two man jujutsu katas of wado, which consists of idori (both the 7 waza and 10 waza versions), fujin goshinjutsu (5), gyakunage (10, but many said this is not an official kata), and tantodori (both the 7 waza and 10 waza versions). he demonstrate also tachidori (sword defenses) but to this day we never really learned the kata, just some taisabaki movements from that kata.

 

[Cirdan]

I had a conversation about stances (wado) with my sensei a few days ago and he told me that all you need is present in Pinan Nidan, it is just not very apperant. I was a bit doubtful at first but after thinking about it I must agree. Toughts?

 

[Wes Tasker]

Cirdan-

We could actually turn this into an interesting exercise if you would care to list the tachi / kamae used in your school's version of Pinan Nidan. Then we could examine how your Sensei's statement might play out. If you didn't mind....

-wes tasker

 

[Cirdan]

Cirdan-

We could actually turn this into an interesting exercise if you would care to list the tachi / kamae used in your school's version of Pinan Nidan. Then we could examine how your Sensei's statement might play out. If you didn't mind....

-wes tasker

The following is a breakdown of Pinan Nidan (from a dvd with Hiroji Fukazawa.) Except for a few details this is how our club do this kata.


Musubi dachi - Rei/Shizentai yoi

90 degree left turn. Mahamni no neko ashi dachi left - Gedan tetsui otoshi uke left / move forward Junzuki dachi right - Junzuki right

About-turn to the right: Junzuki dachi right - Gedan barai / release Tetsui otoshi uke right bringing back the front foot in Migishizentai / move forward: Junzuki dachi right - Junzuki right

90 degree to the left: Junzuki dachi left - Gedan barai / move forward: Junzuki dachi right - Jodan age uke right.
Move forward: Junzuki dachi left - Jodan age uke left / move forward: Junzuki dachi right - Jodan age uke right + Kiai

Rotate 225 degrees to the left: Junzuki dachi left - Gedan barai left / move forward Junzuki dachi right - Junzuki right

90 degrees to the right: Junzuki dachi right -Gedan barai right / move forward Junzuki dachi left - Junzuki left

45 degrees to the left: Junzuki dachi left - Gedan barai left / move forward Junzuki dachi right - Junzuki right.
Move forward Junzuki dachi left - Oi zuki left / move forward Junzuki dachi right -Junzuki right + Kiai

Rotate on right foot 225 degrees to the left: Shomen no neko ashi dachi - move forward the left foot: Shiko dachi left - (Yonhon)Nukite left / move forward Shiko dachi right - Nukite left

Rotate on the left foot 90 degrees to the right: Shomen no neko ashi dachi - move forward the right foot: Shiko dachi right - Nukite right / move forward Shiko dachi left - Nukite left

Return to Shizentai/Musubi dachi - Rei

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Cirdan,
I don't really understand what you mean by this comment

all you need is present in Pinan Nidan

Can you clarify a bit please?

 

[Cirdan]

Cirdan,
I don't really understand what you mean by this comment Can you clarify a bit please?

My sensei`s argument was basically was that all stances we use are present in Pinan Nidan in some form.

 

[Wes Tasker]

Cirdan-

Thanks for that... One question - is your "junzuki dachi" the same as a "zenkutsu dachi" or front stance in other systems, or is it different? Thanks again.

-wes tasker

 

[Cirdan]

Cirdan-

Thanks for that... One question - is your "junzuki dachi" the same as a "zenkutsu dachi" or front stance in other systems, or is it different? Thanks again.

-wes tasker

I think so yes. My knowledge of other systems is a bit limited. The tip of the front knee is right above the big toe and unlike Shotokan, Wado tilts the torso slightly forward. The stance might also be slightly higher. The half-moon trajectory has been discarded so we move the feet straight forward.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Well I would agree with your Sensei for the most part. Kiba Dachi or Naihanchi-Dachi isn't there and I am not sure about the Wado Ryu version of Pinan Nidan but Kokutsu-Dachi isn't either.

However stand up positions, Cat Stances, Front Stances are. Those really are the primary stances I think. At least ones that seem to be used the most.

 

[Cirdan]

Well I would agree with your Sensei for the most part. Kiba Dachi or Naihanchi-Dachi isn't there and I am not sure about the Wado Ryu version of Pinan Nidan but Kokutsu-Dachi isn't either.

Are you sure these are not present in a similar form or as a "between" position? One of the things my instructor tried to tell me was that many stances are the same with only the torso twisted differently.

Can Kokutsu dachi can be said to be in Pinan Nidan when you move from cat stance to Shiko dachi and strike Yonhon nukite the first time?

 

[Brandon Fisher]

In transition I would say you could recognize it however I feel a stance is not in transition mode it is made even for a second with the block, strike or kick. But again it depends on the system philosophy.

 

[TheHeathen]

Not quoting or picking any particular post.. just using this as a jumping off point..

I would consider that the MOST IMPORTANT KATA is one of two things.

Both are very ambiguous.

It is either..

1. The very first kata that you learn in your chosen style.
--Reason being. It is the base on which you build all your other kata. The first kata will usually make or break a (potential) karateka. Once the first kata is out of the way and learned, it becomes apparent to the student that they either can or cannot do this. Thankfully, most people decide to continue on, and using that skill gained from learning the first kata, they are able to perform all the other kata that they are taught.

or

2. Your competition kata, if you compete.. this could also be altered to say, "Your favorite kata to perform". You will always devote more time and effort to the kata, any/all of them that you like. However, if you compete and you have one kata that you use for that, it will become the most important kata to YOU. You will give it more of your "attention to detail" and effort.

Kata, IMHO is about perspective. I believe there is room for interpretation in many different kata. Obviously, the more basic kata are less subjective, and have a fairly "set in stone" interpretation. But as kata get more advanced, there are some techniques that become more open to interpretation.. many times based on style, but also based on personal perspective.

 

[melj7077]

Of the nine forms I require and teach I consider Naihanchi and Rohai the two most important as they contain most of the base information you'd need to understand the system.

 

[Robert Lee]

I was told before that sanchin Kata is very important And some could do it for 20 years and never know its meaning. It teaches proper breathing proper dynamics of the body when striking and blocking But with out looking or being told what to look for it takes years to understand. So for Goju Ryu It is important Now all the old Kata Koryu katas They hold the key that makes Karate what it is So they are very important to all the styles That have retained them And its been said they should never be changed The newer katas since say 1930 They can be up dated alterd as they are not the key to the orginal Arts that Karate evolved from.

 

[IWishToLearn]

The traditional system I have a teaching credential in teaches 29 kata. Of all of them I'm most partial to Gei Kisai and Patsai Dai.

 

[jtbdad]

This may seem like a cop out guys but to me the most important Kata is whichever one I am working on at the time. I don't mean to sound esoterical or anything but all Kata at least in some ways are the same kata.