Mom Barred From Park For Breast Feeding

[Steve]

IMO, I'd find that a bit indiscreet, however, I'm not going to hop off the bus prior to my destination, nor will I say something to her or to the driver. Of course, I'd also wonder what the hell a 3 or 4 yo child is doing breast feeding in the first place. LOL!

And for what it's worth, I didn't hop off the bus or say anything to her or the driver, either. I tried to hide my surprise, but it was awkward. At the same time, I've never forgotten it. It remains a vivid memory for exactly the two reasons you picked up on. It was extremely indiscreet, and it was shocking to see a child so old nursing. Others also made good points in that it spoke to other issues with that mother/child relationship... lack of respect, lack of boundaries, etc.

 

[CanuckMA]

I'd say that once the child is on a regular diet of solids, he's likely old enough to not have to be breastfed in public. If the kid is hungry, there are substitutes, including expressed breast milk in a cup.

 

[Steve]

LOL, funny you say that, because I often wonder the same thing.

Back in the late 80's, I drove a friend to a star trek convention. I was shocked to discover that the larger the woman, the less fabric she would use in her costume. I saw what looked like a very curvy young lady wearing a Klingon uniform with full makeup and a very large (250 lbs +) woman dressed in what amounted to three silk handkerchiefs.

This inverse ratio of fabric to skin needing to be covered has got to be related to the Conservation of Ninjutsu. Both involve inverse proportions that at first seem counter intuitive. The Conservation of Ninjutsu rule is where the more ninja you face, the less danger you're in. If you're facing 20 ninja, you should have little difficulty defeating them all; however, if you face only one ninja, you are in deep trouble.

 

[MBuzzy]

IMO, I'd find that a bit indiscreet, however, I'm not going to hop off the bus prior to my destination, nor will I say something to her or to the driver. Of course, I'd also wonder what the hell a 3 or 4 yo child is doing breast feeding in the first place. LOL!

My views on breastfeeding changed RADICALLY when I had a child. In fact, I admit that I really didn't understand or know about it AT ALL before my wife was pregnant, but after a great deal of research and 6 months with a baby, I am about as far as can be from where I was before.

While I still have the capacity to view breasts in the sexual manner, I have no qualms about my wife weighing her breasts to see which one to feed off of and her taking one out to feed (at home of course, when there is no discretion requirements).

 

[MBuzzy]

NO! Jesus Christ, you're missing the entire point. She didn't shape my opinion of breastfeeding women. She DID very clearly shape my opinion of an indiscreet breastfeeding woman. You "challenged" anyone to define the term. I gave you a perfect example. Outside of that, though, I've gone out of my way to make it very clear that I have no problem with women who nurse their babies in public. It's just not a big deal... unless the woman goes out of her way to be indiscreet.

I think we're both missing each other's point. My point is that an example is great, but doesn't provide a definition. Unless you're saying that the instance that you cited is the ONLY way for a mother to be indiscreet. For a definition like this, the only way to do it is to provide a measuring stick by which people can live. My point is that to you, it is obvious what constitutes discreet....but to others it isn't so obvious. Their definition is different. The basis of ANY discussion is definition. While an example does demonstrate the point, it doesn't give anyone a way to determine if their behavior fits into that bucket.

For example - my definition of discreet in terms of breastfeeding is:

A mother who feeds her child when and where he/she needs to eat, but does it in a manner that minimizes exposure of her nipple to others.

Other than that, it is pretty much up to her. I couldn't care less how uncomfortable my wife makes someone when my kid is eating.

And honestly, I can't think of anyone so far who would disagree with you that the vast majority of breastfeeding mothers ARE very discreet. It's the ones who aren't to whom I'm referring. And there are some. That's all. And those who aren't discreet... should be. Wouldn't you agree?

That is true, it seems that MOST are not the problem, in fact, in the majority of the stories that make the news, the mother was being discreet and unobtrusive. It was some employee or other person who didn't like the IDEA of breastfeeding, not the specific incident.

I agree that those who aren't discreet should be...its just that there are SO FEW. Every mother who breastfeeds still has some sense of humility and doesn't want her nipple brandished about. But her version of the definition of discreet may still vary wildly from yours and many other people's.

But we can agree that the woman on that bus meets the definition of indiscreet. Can't we? It seems to me that when MJS and I and others talk about discretion and common sense, we're not talking about any kind of gray area. We're talking about the oblivious moms who really only make things harder for the "vast majority" of nursing mothers who just want to feed their babies without making a big deal about the entire thing. And of course you're right, even if the child is 4 and pulling mom's boob out himself. Legally, there's no recourse. Doesn't mean I and everyone else around isn't forming an opinion about that person. And as you said, potentially about breastfeeding in general.

Ok - but again, that is one incident. I agree, that one incident was a bit off...but it is up to the mother and HER definition of discreet, based on the law. What it boils down to is standard across really any discussion. A very small percentage of people screw things up for the rest. It just so happens in this case that the small percentage of people are most likely still in the right legally and it is the observers who are causing the problems.

 

[crushing]

Discreet is when no one knows the mother is breast feeding?
Discreet is when you are able to recognize the mother is breast feeding, but don't see any skin?
Discreet is when you only catch a glimpse of the side of a breast when a mother is breast feeding?
Discreet is when the breast is only exposed for a moment until the baby's head is in the way.


No! No! No! No! Discreet is checking out the breast feeding mother in the park and catching a glimpse without her catching you. If she does catch you, tell her to go to the toilet and complain to your boss before the mother rats you out.

 

[MJS]

Heres a thought, and I dont know if its already been mentioned or not in this thread....how about if the mother pumped breast milk into a bottle and used that method to feed? Now, I'm not saying this is something she has to do, just an option. Some may say, "Well, why should she have to? Afterall, its her right to breast feed!" and you're right, it is. Again, this was simply an option.

I guess I was just thinking along the 'discreet' lines.

 

[crushing]

Heres a thought, and I dont know if its already been mentioned or not in this thread....how about if the mother pumped breast milk into a bottle and used that method to feed? Now, I'm not saying this is something she has to do, just an option. Some may say, "Well, why should she have to? Afterall, its her right to breast feed!" and you're right, it is. Again, this was simply an option.

I guess I was just thinking along the 'discreet' lines.

Yes, it's an option, an inconvenient and completely unnecessary option. Besides that, sometimes when infants get used to one type of nipple, they won't latch on to another. There is the chance that a baby that is fed from a bottle may not accept the mother's nipple.

The best scenario is to not worry too much about what the mother is doing unless she is putting someone in danger.

 

[MJS]

Yes, it's an option, an inconvenient and completely unnecessary option. Besides that, sometimes when infants get used to one type of nipple, they won't latch on to another. There is the chance that a baby that is fed from a bottle may not accept the mother's nipple.

So, then what you're saying is that until the child is old enough to no longer breast feed, that the mother is basically a prisoner in her home, unless she can take the child with her? She could never leave the child with a sitter? What does the mother do about work? Does she stay out of work until the child is old enough to no longer have to nurse?

Sincere questions here BTW, as I have no idea.

The best scenario is to not worry too much about what the mother is doing unless she is putting someone in danger.

Of course, and as I've said a few times already, the sight of this wont upset or bother me. I simply said that discretion and common sense should be used. Of course, we all know thats not always the case.

 

[CoryKS]

Jayzus, people make things so complicated. This is literally something so easy a cave(wo)man could do it.

 

[Steve]

Personally, I don't know how this became such a big deal. I really don't understand why we're all saying pretty much the same thing and still arguing.

In fact, I'm going to completely reverse my opinion. I fully endorse a woman's right to be topless in public, nursing or not. If women are routinely topless, than issues of discretion magically disappear.

But you'll never convince me that a child older than one NEEDS to be nursed, or that a child older than two SHOULD be nursing or at least in the process of being weaned. This also applies to being fed formula or milk from a bottle.

 

[MJS]

Personally, I don't know how this became such a big deal. I really don't understand why we're all saying pretty much the same thing and still arguing.

I agree.

In fact, I'm going to completely reverse my opinion. I fully endorse a woman's right to be topless in public, nursing or not. If women are routinely topless, than issues of discretion magically disappear.

All in favor.....I.

But you'll never convince me that a child older than one NEEDS to be nursed, or that a child older than two SHOULD be nursing or at least in the process of being weaned. This also applies to being fed formula or milk from a bottle.

Agreed.

 

[crushing]

So, then what you're saying is that until the child is old enough to no longer breast feed, that the mother is basically a prisoner in her home, unless she can take the child with her? She could never leave the child with a sitter? What does the mother do about work? Does she stay out of work until the child is old enough to no longer have to nurse?

Sincere questions here BTW, as I have no idea.

I didn't say anything of the sort. There is no reason for her to be a prisoner in her home or a prisoner of a park toilet or some sort of breastfeeding burka to satisfy some man's definition of being discreet.

My wife wanted to breast feed our first child. We had a bit of a communication problem with the nurses at the German Krankenhaus where he was born. After the nurses began feeding him with the bottle without our realizing it. After that he rejected his mother's nipple in favor of the easier feeding from the bottle.

Many mothers pump their breast milk for the baby to drink at a time when it is more convenient for the mother, such as when she is at work or away from home. But, there is that risk of rejection, which may lessen as the infant gets older. Also, because this can be done, doesn't mean that women should be compelled to do it when it is completely unnecessary.

 

[CanuckMA]

In fact, I'm going to completely reverse my opinion. I fully endorse a woman's right to be topless in public, nursing or not. If women are routinely topless, than issues of discretion magically disappear.

Move to Ontario?

 

[Blade96]

I think you may want to have a good think about that, the idea of a women being merely for a mans pleasure I find somewhat disturbing. it may mean you aren't comfortable with your own body if you reject what your body is made for. There's no reason breasts can't be for pleasure as well but the primary function is to feed babies and most women are happy with their 'dual use'. To be grossed out by breast feeding is a little odd.

well im not like 'most women'

Fair enough but I wouldn't expect the same awkwardness or disgust from a woman which is what prompted my post.

well, I am a woman who has awkwardness and disgust for the whole thing.

but just cause i dont like anything to do with procreation, babies and breastfeeding does not mean that i dont like my body.

 

[Tez3]

well im not like 'most women'



well, I am a woman who has awkwardness and disgust for the whole thing.

but just cause i dont like anything to do with procreation, babies and breastfeeding does not mean that i dont like my body.

but finding my body disgusting is upsetting for me.

 

[MJS]

I didn't say anything of the sort. There is no reason for her to be a prisoner in her home or a prisoner of a park toilet or some sort of breastfeeding burka to satisfy some man's definition of being discreet.

My wife wanted to breast feed our first child. We had a bit of a communication problem with the nurses at the German Krankenhaus where he was born. After the nurses began feeding him with the bottle without our realizing it. After that he rejected his mother's nipple in favor of the easier feeding from the bottle.

Many mothers pump their breast milk for the baby to drink at a time when it is more convenient for the mother, such as when she is at work or away from home. But, there is that risk of rejection, which may lessen as the infant gets older. Also, because this can be done, doesn't mean that women should be compelled to do it when it is completely unnecessary.

IMO, thats pretty much what it implied though. Again, I have no issues with someone, discreet or indiscreet. So basically, the mother can pump, but runs the risk of having the baby reject her nipple, if its bottle fed. So she either a) takes that chance or b) she doesnt. As I said, with the trend of feeding your kid via nipple until they're 2, 3 or 4, she is going to have to take that kid with her wherever she goes, or pump milk into a bottle.

 

[Blade96]

Jayzus, people make things so complicated. This is literally something so easy a cave(wo)man could do it.

LOL, i thought Newfoundlanders were the only ones who said jayzis!

see we say Lard Tunderin' Jayzis :uhyeah:

 

[MJS]

http://www.kpho.com/news/24615629/detail.html?source=pho

PHOENIX --

A Valley mother said she was kicked out of McDonald's for breastfeeding her 5-month-old son.

Clarissa Bradford said she had just arrived at the McDonald's restaurant at 51st Avenue and Cactus Road on Wednesday night after church. However, once she started nursing baby Ceagan in the play area, she said the restaurant manager told them to leave.

Found these statements interesting:

"I was completely covered, I was wearing a T-shirt, he was covering anything that was exposed, and my T-shirt was draped across his face," Bradford said. "I'm on my third baby. I've gotten pretty dang good at nursing discreetly."

"That's going to fix it? That's going to fix the trauma that happened to me last night to me and my children? I don't think so. A slap on the hand is not good enough," Bradford said. "I want them to advocate for nursing moms. That would be enough for me."

Trauma? I guess there're alot of real sensitive people in the world.