Modern?

cloud

White Belt
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Dustin said:
I'm just curious, the Toshindo is supposed to be a "modern" version of the Bujinkan... my question is, how is soke's teachings not modern? I find this idea of "modern taijutsu" to be strange. I do understand our history and ryuha traditions in the Bujinkan are very old, but I don't see how what Soke is teaching is so "out of date" that it is necessary to begin a whole new organization dedicated to updating it. This seems to be extremely unnecessary.

Here's Shihan Haye's definition of the Toshindo, http://www.skhquest.com/training/ToShinDoDescription.aspx

I read the definition and I find that it is simply a discription of the Bujinkan. I'm asking this only because I've come across a couple of new Toshindo students who wish to train with me at our Bujinkan Dojo. I've never heard anything about the toshindo and after talking with them awhile I found that they had some very strange and distorted views of what the bujinkan really was. Their view was one that felt that we basically bow in, equip our armor, pull out our scrolls, and memorize the names of kata.

So my questions are,
1. Is the Toshindo a Modern interpretation of the Bujinkan (soke's teachings).
2. Does anyone else agree that forming a totally different organization dedicated to an "updated" version of the Bujinkan unnecessary?
3. If it is a "Updated" version, what exactly do they do that is so "Modern".

I'm just curious because I just recently returned from training in Japan and after hearing about kevlar vests, fighting with pins and glasses, and using sweaters and tshirts in our movement just make me curious about how what Soke is teaching is so "outdated".

There are a lot of things to be discuss here and as I tried to keep things short and concise, I may have missed key points so please address it if you find them.

1. Is the Toshindo a Modern interpretation of the Bujinkan (soke's teachings).

and

2. Does anyone else agree that forming a totally different organization dedicated to an "updated" version of the Bujinkan unnecessary?

From my limited experience, it is not. It is based on the Bujinkan but is not exactly a modern interpretation. If I have to put it in words, it is more like Bujinkan adapted to fit the 20th century IN THE US. All the training method are design for the mentality of US people and how they can best learn it. Eg. Westerner need proves and references of state of manifestaiton. That's why Toshindo break it down into elements for them to see that earth represent Commitment, Water - adaptation, Fire - Connectivity and intensity etc. It is not neccessary for Japanese, most likely not, but so that more american can better grasp concept, it might be easier if not neccessary. Why not use such method under the name BBT? I guess it just make more sense to change the name to avoid confusion.

3. If it is a "Updated" version, what exactly do they do that is so "Modern".
I am not sure who say it is an updated version. Certainly that would be arrogrant. Now there are things Toshindo does that take into account the modern world, that includes everything from clothing, mentality, equipment to Law, or at least they try to anyway; no system is perfect. So for example, certain ways of doing techniques have change due to size differences and the cloth people wear. Onikudaki, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE AND I MIGHT BE WRONG, used to be taught as pushing the forearm becuase you have the weight of the armor to support. Now you don't wear the armor anymore so it turns into pulling elbow. It might be that I have been given false information but for me, pulling the elbow (for onikudaki) works but pushing forearm doesn't. Western people require materailistic object, for the most part, to stay motivated. Not changing the belt or elements make them lose their motivation. That's why toshindo have different belt system than Bujinkan.

The most important thing that Toshindo emphasize is that US law is strictly mad (at least to me) that you could totally destroy your life (by getting sued) by preventing yourself from danger using martial art. Because of that Toshindo try to make it seems like you do nothing and that's definitely one main differences between TSD and BBT. Ultimately you can achieve all of this as true master move so little like they do nothing. But since american have more tendency to show the machoness, not that this is wrong it's just how americans are, great emphasis might need to be placed so they can see how compassion is true strength.

All if all this is not enough for you to see why it MIGHT be necessary to have TSD, go check it out. I go check out BBT and learn a great deal from it. Personally I think that once you do BBT you should go do TSD too, just to explore, as Soke Hatsumi always tells us to "look at the world from the eye of a child."
 

Grey Eyed Bandit

Master of Arts
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
49
Location
MAP Hell
cloud said:
Onikudaki, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE AND I MIGHT BE WRONG, used to be taught as pushing the forearm becuase you have the weight of the armor to support. Now you don't wear the armor anymore so it turns into pulling elbow. It might be that I have been given false information but for me, pulling the elbow (for onikudaki) works but pushing forearm doesn't.

For those more in the know than myself - as far as I can remember oni kudaki comes from Takagi Yoshin ryu. Not much armor wearing there, is there?

cloud said:
Because of that Toshindo try to make it seems like you do nothing and that's definitely one main differences between TSD and BBT.

Good taijutsu when applied properly can indeed make you look like a layman with no fighting experience.
 

cloud

White Belt
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
16
Reaction score
1
Nimravus said:
Good taijutsu when applied properly can indeed make you look like a layman with no fighting experience.

I must have have forgot to write it somewhere but I very much do agree that ultimately either style will make you look like you do nothing. Unfortunately most people don't get the privillege go to the ultimate and in that mean while they still need to look as much like they are doing nothing ot avoid problems with law. That is why Toshindo try to place emphasis on this as most american have a hard time trying not to look martial arty.

Cloud
 

Latest Discussions

Top