Modern Arnis Situation/Succession - Was "A question that needs to be answered"
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bloodwood
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- Thread Starter
- #42
Wow!!! Michael Bates the new executive director of the IMAF.
If he helps run the organization like he runs his own school, people should be heading for the doors real soon.
Sorry, but I just couldn't resist saying that.
If he helps run the organization like he runs his own school, people should be heading for the doors real soon.
Sorry, but I just couldn't resist saying that.
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GouRonin
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- #43
Wow, the Arnis world seems to have had a lot of problems and only Remy was holding them together.
Was all this just waiting to burst and only Remy kept things in check?
Was all this just waiting to burst and only Remy kept things in check?
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bloodwood
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- #44
Yep! With Prof Remy gone all the jokers are looking for their 15 minutes of fame. It may take awhile but the cream WILL rise to the top. It seems like the WMAA is the only organization that is on stable ground right now, while the others are beating each other up. It will be interesting to watch all this unfold.
Nothing like a good martial arts soap opera !
Nothing like a good martial arts soap opera !
This is hot off the presses! How many Modern Arnis Groups will there be?
From: INOCALLASHIR2
To: Arnisman
I know how tough and crazy it is in the last month. It is very difficult for
us. Prof. has left us with his spirit and his wisdom. We can only go on and
live his legacy. You and all his student are doing great work. Continue it. I
am also put in a situation here that I see needs to be done. I will go ahead
and pursue it. I will ask assistance from you and every one I know and are
sympathetic to Filipino martial arts and GM Remy Presas. 1 rst I want to
finish a respectable grave for him. 2nd I want to support our members in
Bacolod and Hinigaran to establish a Modern Arnis educational institute
there. I am lobbying for the city council to declare Bacolod to be Modern
Arnis City. 3rd I am producing Arnis and Martial Arts TV series for National
station, 4th I am uniting filipino martial arts here in the
Philippines...Modern Arnis Maharlikha Obviously this will need money and
time. You and our supporters can greatly help us here financially. You and
our members can do a fund campaign for these projects. I believe this has to
be done now for the survival and propagation of filipino martial here and the
world. Thank you for your support. Keep me in touch. You can pass this
message to our supporters.
You brother in Arnis,
Shishir Inocalla
:soapbox:
From: INOCALLASHIR2
To: Arnisman
I know how tough and crazy it is in the last month. It is very difficult for
us. Prof. has left us with his spirit and his wisdom. We can only go on and
live his legacy. You and all his student are doing great work. Continue it. I
am also put in a situation here that I see needs to be done. I will go ahead
and pursue it. I will ask assistance from you and every one I know and are
sympathetic to Filipino martial arts and GM Remy Presas. 1 rst I want to
finish a respectable grave for him. 2nd I want to support our members in
Bacolod and Hinigaran to establish a Modern Arnis educational institute
there. I am lobbying for the city council to declare Bacolod to be Modern
Arnis City. 3rd I am producing Arnis and Martial Arts TV series for National
station, 4th I am uniting filipino martial arts here in the
Philippines...Modern Arnis Maharlikha Obviously this will need money and
time. You and our supporters can greatly help us here financially. You and
our members can do a fund campaign for these projects. I believe this has to
be done now for the survival and propagation of filipino martial here and the
world. Thank you for your support. Keep me in touch. You can pass this
message to our supporters.
You brother in Arnis,
Shishir Inocalla
:soapbox:
I can see a couple of "competing" orgs. Different focuses, different players, yet the core is Remy's Modern Arnis. Basically, a bit of a different focus, flavor if you will may be a good thing.
The problem arises when the competition is not friendly, but brutal. When the students, who only wish to learn a great art are used as pawns between warring premadonas, who's only goal is a piece of the cash prize known as Modern Arnis.
The fall out will be schools that test for cash, vs turning out trained students. Instructors who only know a fraction of the art, suddenly self-promoted to high poobah status. Etc. Etc.
And the art gets lost in the political mess.
Personally, I'd rather train under an instructor who was personally trained by Remy. Who has broader exposure to other arts (Kail, Escrima, Bondo, etc) so you get a full package vs just a part. Who those people are, I don't know. Some are here, some are not. I think when the dust settles, they will be the ones with the strong growing organizations. The rest, may survive by turning out substandard students, or learning to say "Ya want fries with that?"
Either way, when I earn my Modern Arnis Black Belt, I'll know it was from a fully qualified instructor. Not a glory hog, or some johnny come lately, or someone who just read a few books and can use Photoshop to make a cert.
Peace.
The problem arises when the competition is not friendly, but brutal. When the students, who only wish to learn a great art are used as pawns between warring premadonas, who's only goal is a piece of the cash prize known as Modern Arnis.
The fall out will be schools that test for cash, vs turning out trained students. Instructors who only know a fraction of the art, suddenly self-promoted to high poobah status. Etc. Etc.
And the art gets lost in the political mess.
Personally, I'd rather train under an instructor who was personally trained by Remy. Who has broader exposure to other arts (Kail, Escrima, Bondo, etc) so you get a full package vs just a part. Who those people are, I don't know. Some are here, some are not. I think when the dust settles, they will be the ones with the strong growing organizations. The rest, may survive by turning out substandard students, or learning to say "Ya want fries with that?"
Either way, when I earn my Modern Arnis Black Belt, I'll know it was from a fully qualified instructor. Not a glory hog, or some johnny come lately, or someone who just read a few books and can use Photoshop to make a cert.
Peace.
OP
GouRonin
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- Thread Starter
- #48
I think I will start my own Arnis group. I'll call it, "Guys who never did Arnis while the Prof was alive but now want to cash in"
Who's joining?
Who's joining?
Well....first ya gotta write a book...so, step one is get some sticks...step 2, make fancy poses and step 3 is profit.
Ooh, can I be the 'fall guy' in the pics for the book? I can make a really good, "Oh, that really hurt!" face!
I know we're making light of the Modern Arnis leadership crisis, but you have to admit, it is getting rather ridiculous.
Cthulhu
I know we're making light of the Modern Arnis leadership crisis, but you have to admit, it is getting rather ridiculous.
Cthulhu
Its a tense situation, and lives will change, possibly a few careers ended over this.
We make the jokes, to lighten up the atmosphere a bit, and break the tension. A pause to clear the mind sorta.
This way, when the next wave of seriousness arrives, it is delivered with a clear head, rather than emotions run wild.
Course, I sparred last night, and someone kept aiming for my head...so mines probly not too clear. (colds don't help either).
We make the jokes, to lighten up the atmosphere a bit, and break the tension. A pause to clear the mind sorta.
This way, when the next wave of seriousness arrives, it is delivered with a clear head, rather than emotions run wild.
Course, I sparred last night, and someone kept aiming for my head...so mines probly not too clear. (colds don't help either).
It is truly sad that such B.S. has to go down. We should be trying to honor the man not cash in on him. What can you do in every bunch of apples there are always a few rotten ones.
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GouRonin
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- Thread Starter
- #53
Usually you take bad apples and you boil them in hot water and crush them to make applesauce.
:samurai:
:samurai:
Crush, Kill, Destroy Them All! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!:flame:
Originally posted by Renegade
It is truly sad that such B.S. has to go down. We should be trying to honor the man not cash in on him. What can you do in every bunch of apples there are always a few rotten ones.
But there's so much more to it than that. The Professor led us to this state of confusion by not clearly indicating who would succeed him and then slowly working that person more and more into his seminars and giving him or her other leadership opportunities over a period of years. In addition, so many Modern Arnis practictioners do arnis as a second art and their emotional attachment to Modern Arnis is lessened because of this. (In addition, they generally rely on their base art for empty-hand techniques and don't develop significant Modern Arnis empty-hand techniques. This is easily tested--pick a random Modern Arnis black belt and ask them to demonstrate an anyo. They won't know one. They don't take them seriously.) Also, black belts have been handed out like candy in Modern Arnis for years and the recipients know this. It's painfully obvious that none of the Professor's U.S. students ever approached him in skill, in part because they couldn't train with him constantly and in part because he didn't share everything he had. This means the complete art isn't known by any one person (possibly the complete art wasn't ever well-defined).
But much more to the point, the sum total of all these effects is a lack of full confidence in the art and its practitioners. This fallout is reminiscent of the Ed Parker situation but in that case you had powerful martial artists sparring for control of a large, well-defined organization. Here weak arnisadors are vying for control of Remy Presas' legacy. They don't have the standing to truly take control because they don't have the respect of those who have worked with them...for a variety of reasons.
(I do not include in this Tim Hartman, who doesn't appear to be trying to take control and who above all has shown his affection for and skill in Modern Arnis through his actions, not through talk. He was focusing on the empty-hand applications in Modern Arnis long ago, and making Modern Arnis his principal art. I should add that I am a friend and student of Mr. Hartman.)
I suspect that it's over for Modern Arnis. Within a decade all that will be left is Arnis Inocalla, Arnis Delaney, Arnis Presas Jr., etc. The only thing that could save its unity now, in my opinion, would be to merge with one of the Professor's brothers' organizations. This is not because I believe they are the best qualified but because I believe that no one else would gain sufficiently wide support from the Modern Arnis community.
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GouRonin
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- Thread Starter
- #56
This was something in the making. Avoidable maybe, but not now.
:cuss:
:cuss:
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IFAJKD
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- Thread Starter
- #57
There are those great many people who "marry" to the system instead of utilizing that which is needed. I come from such a trong background in JKD that to look entirly at one system is missing the rest of the picture. Martial arts does not exist so that we may have loyalties to an individual. Yet we can admire their skill and their contribution. Martial arts exists to free people from chains litterally and figurativley. To save lives at the risk of possibly one day taking one. If it happens on any level the person lying on the ground will not wonder if that strike came from an angle 1 or 2 or 5 or if it was abinico or rodondo. Systems are nothing more than contributions to the whole not a whole themselves. In the end this argument will not make anyone more or less effective. It is a distraction from training.
Of course, all of this is only true if you are into combative effectiveness as a whole vs the tieing of oneself to one system. Remey Presas was a very good martial artist and contributed much. To that end he will be missed. The issue of who controls what is really irrelevent except for status, money and ego :asian: :soapbox:
Of course, all of this is only true if you are into combative effectiveness as a whole vs the tieing of oneself to one system. Remey Presas was a very good martial artist and contributed much. To that end he will be missed. The issue of who controls what is really irrelevent except for status, money and ego :asian: :soapbox:
Prof. Presas may not have chosen a successor earlier simply because he never planned on getting sick and dying. As I infer from one of Renegade's earlier posts, certain people may have taken advantage of the Professor's unclear state of mind when he was sick. This alone is deplorable.
Cthulhu
Cthulhu
Some people are motivated by fear. Fear of losing their "place" be it a place to live, a title, a rank, a place to belong, etc.
Some are motivated by greed. A want of money, fame, or other such "material" things.
Some are motivated by anger, thoughts of revenge for a slight both real and imagined.
Others are motivated by the desire to continue a fine art...to remember a great man....and more.
These are the ones we should seek out. For in them alone, do I see the art surviving, and the memories remain. :asian:
Some are motivated by greed. A want of money, fame, or other such "material" things.
Some are motivated by anger, thoughts of revenge for a slight both real and imagined.
Others are motivated by the desire to continue a fine art...to remember a great man....and more.
These are the ones we should seek out. For in them alone, do I see the art surviving, and the memories remain. :asian:
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Keil Randor
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- Thread Starter
- #60
I thought in situations like this that the leadership role usually fell to either a family member who is highly ranked in the art, or to the highest ranked student of the deceased?
I know GM Presas has a brother...Ernesto? Is he involved with Modern Arnis?
In regards to Mr. Delany - What rank is he? I've seen him listed as a 3rd degree Black Belt, a 5th degree and a 10th (isn't that what a Grandmaster rank is?)
In regards to Ms. Harwood - What rank is she, and what level of leadership has she had in the MA community?
Regarding the Presas family - I have seen GM Remy Presas listed as the founder of the art, and know his brother (Ernesto?) is also active in -a- art (not sure if its MA or something else. What has the rest of the family done?
I'm sorry for being a little naieve here, but I don't understand the connections in the players at this time. Not too familiar with the FMA area. Thanks.
I know GM Presas has a brother...Ernesto? Is he involved with Modern Arnis?
In regards to Mr. Delany - What rank is he? I've seen him listed as a 3rd degree Black Belt, a 5th degree and a 10th (isn't that what a Grandmaster rank is?)
In regards to Ms. Harwood - What rank is she, and what level of leadership has she had in the MA community?
Regarding the Presas family - I have seen GM Remy Presas listed as the founder of the art, and know his brother (Ernesto?) is also active in -a- art (not sure if its MA or something else. What has the rest of the family done?
I'm sorry for being a little naieve here, but I don't understand the connections in the players at this time. Not too familiar with the FMA area. Thanks.
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