Modern Arnis Lineage List or chart

Discussion in 'Modern Arnis' started by Bob, Nov 20, 2002.

  1. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    John moved a couple times. I will have the entire Buffalo list up by the end of the weekend.
     
  2. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Do you know whether he is still active in arnis or not?
     
  3. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    Not.
     
  4. DoctorB

    DoctorB Guest

    Hi Arnisador,

    I want to offer a corrrection to your post. The first school to teach Modern Arnis in the Buffalo area was owned and operated by Sifu Don Zanghi. He was John Bryant's instructor. Sifu Zanghi was also the only Buffalo area instructor to attend the two week camps in Washington State in the late 1970s. He operated his school under the "Fighting Back Institute" name and he served as the first IMAF Area Representative. Sifu Zanghi taught Tracy System Kenpo and Modern Arnis as co-equals from white through black belt, begining in 1979.

    John Bryant attended the week long camps in PA in 1980 and 81. In 1981, Professor Presas, pulled John aside, at the Ardmore, PA camp and promoted him to Lakan, without Sifu Zanghi's, knowledge and consent. At the time John, had just earned his first brown belt promotion from Sifu Zanghi. John came back to Buffalo and opened the "Filipino Martial Arts Academy". He taught Modern Arnis, exclusively, however, Sifu Zanghi remained the IMAF Area Representative for another 3 years. I will not go into the hard feelings that resulted from John's promotion by Professor.

    I believe that Tim Hartman became a student of the FMAA in 1983, and by that time Dave Smith and Tammy Wilson were the instrutional assistants and they were on their way to earning their Lakan grades, from Professor. Tammy was the first female
    in NY State to earn the Lakan/Dayang rank in Modern Arnis. There was one other women associated with John, who was close to earning a lakan, but she dropped out of training.

    Don Zanghi had three females who went to the Likah/ Brown Belt levels but none of them tested for Lakan status. Several people that Tim has listed in a post above as his black belts were actually classmates of mine at the Zanghi School and had earned Likah ranks prior to the closing of the "Fighting Back Insitute" - Tim and I worked with those people for about 18 months before they want to the Michigan Camp, where they tested and earned their Lakans - Jeff Rech and Tim Unger - David Battaglia, earned his Lakan two years later in Buffalo, although David is senior to all of us in terms of time in Modern Arnis training.

    Since I was involved in the Zanghi group from 1981, I think I have a very accurate picture of the history behing Modern Arnis in the Buffalo area and what I am reporting is not second hand or hearsay information. Battaglia and I completed our training under Sifu Zanghi and received our Shodan and Lakan gradings through him, as well as earning Lakan status from Professor Presas, in Modern Arnis.

    David is teaching Modern Arnis and Aikido in Kenmore, NY and I am teaching Modern Arnis, Pancipanci Eskrima and Tracy Kenpo
    at both a private school in Hamburg, NY and at Erie Community College in Orcghard, NY.

    My students who have earned Lakan gradings under Professor are Tim Kashino, Richard Curren and Thomas Verga.

    Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
     
  5. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    John was the first full time Modern Arnis school teaching Modern Arnis only.
     
  6. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    The following are the Black Belts that started in Buffalo or came to Buffalo for their training. Several of these people may have trained with more than one teacher. This list represents who was their primary influence. Most of the head instructors became direct student of GM Presas.

    Don Zanghi produced the following students:
    Jerome Barber
    John Bryant
    Gary Castanza

    John Bryant produced the following students:
    Tim Hartman
    Dave Smith
    Tammy Wilson

    Tammy Wilson produced:
    Peter Kautz

    Dan Carr Produced:
    Bob Chesbro

    Tim Hartman 6th Degree produced the following students:
    Kevin Black
    Jeff Rech
    Jeffery Leader
    Ron Murcin
    Mike Alfano
    Mike Antecki
    A. Paul Dawdy (Canada)
    John CS Lehmann
    Paul O’Grady
    Amy Antecki
    David Battaglia
    Gene Cunningham
    George Harris
    Primo Luciano
    Mark Mosler
    Mike Milazzo
    David Pajak
    Mike Rogers
    Tim Unger
    Jordan Yee

    Dr. Jerome Barber produced the following students:
    Richard Curren Black - Lakan
    Tim Kashino Black - Lakan
    Tom Verga Black - Lakan

    The following is the complete list of Black Belts from Buffalo with rank issued by GM Presas:

    1.Tim Hartman--------------6th Black - Lakan Anim

    2.Dan Carr------------------Rank 4th or 5th???

    3.Jerome Barber-----------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
    4.Kevin Black---------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
    5.Bob Chesbro--------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
    6.Jeff Rech-------------------3rd Black - Lakan Tatlo
    7.Don Zanghi---------------3rd Black ???

    8.Jeffery Leader------------2nd Black - Lakan Dalawa
    9.Ron Murcin----------------2nd Black - Lakan Dalawa

    10.Mike Alfano--------------1st Black - Lakan Isa
    11.Mike Antecki-------------1st Black - Lakan Isa
    12.John Bryant--------------1st Black - Lakan Isa
    13.A. Paul Dawdy-----------1st Black - Lakan Isa (Canada)
    14.John CS Lehmann-------1st Black - Lakan Isa
    15.Paul O’Grady-------------1st Black - Lakan Isa

    16.Amy Antecki--------------Black - Dayang
    17.David Battaglia----------Black - Lakan (belt revoked by GM Presas)
    18.Gary Castanza----------Black - Lakan
    19.Gene Cunningham------Black - Lakan
    20.Richard Curren----------Black - Lakan
    21.George Harris-----------Black - Lakan
    22.Tim Kashino-------------Black - Lakan
    23.Peter Kautz--------------Black - Lakan
    24.Primo Luciano-----------Black - Lakan
    25.Mark Mosler-------------Black - Lakan
    26.Mike Milazzo------------Black - Lakan
    27.David Pajak-------------Black - Lakan
    28.Mike Rogers-------------Black - Lakan
    29.Dave Smith--------------Black - Lakan (belt revoked by GM Presas)
    30.Tim Unger---------------Black - Lakan
    31.Tom Verga--------------Black - Lakan
    32.Tammy Wilson----------Black - Dayang
    33.Jordan Yee--------------Black - Lakan


    * The people listed above have been issued OFFICIAL IMAF diplomas from GM Presas. These ranks have not been bestowed by WMAA, IMAF Shea, IMAF Delaney, MARPPIO, DAV, etc. Although, some of them have since been awarded such ranks in addition.
     
  7. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    This was what I meant to say. Dr. Barber is correct that the story is more complicated than that. I knew many but not all of the details he mentions and most of the people. Thanks for clarifying the matter!
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Although, some of them have since been awarded such ranks in addition.
     
  9. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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  10. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    Dieter,

    when did these people test in front of Remy? Also , I thought you said that the DAV wasn't part of the IMAF. The reason I ask is that is alot of people being promoted by Remy without being memebers.

    Datu Tim Hartman
    _________________
    Lead by example, follow by choice.
     
  11. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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  12. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    So what you're saying is that it was a DAV testing that Remy signed off on. So the Black Belts that were issued are DAV ones that Remy signed as a witness as he has done for other martial art organizations.
    _________________
    Lead by example, follow by choice.
     
  13. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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  14. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    So you understand this is not an attack on you. Since Remy moved to the states the only person who was authorized to promote to Black Belt was Remy himself. Remy told me this in 1997, when I asked him myself what belt I would have to be to promote people to Black Belt.
     
  15. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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  16. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    I wrote this:

    Since Remy moved to the states the only person who was authorized to promote to Black Belt was Remy himself. Remy told me this in 1997, when I asked him myself what belt I would have to be to promote people to Black Belt.

    Remember that Ernesto had to change the name because of Remy. So this would mean that you were licensed to teach KOMBATON.

    Maybe in the DAV program, but I've NEVER heard Remy giving anyone permission to promote to that level. Remeber English is niether yours nor Remy's primary language. I would bet that there was some communication problems which lead to a couple misunderstandings.
     
  17. Dieter

    Dieter Brown Belt

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    You start splitting hair.

    I got it in 1986 (I looked it up) and then the Modern Arnis of Ernesto was closer to the Modern Arnis of Remys pink book that what Remy taught in his last years. I stopped training with Ernesto beginning of the 90ies and Remy made Ernesto stop using the term Modern Arnis only around 2000. So this was years after me.

    Remember: Remy promoted me to 6th Dan MODERN ARNIS, he made me his 4th DATU of MODERN ARNIS and he made me his MODERN ARNIS Representative for Europe!
    And all the of course only, because I don´t do Modern Arnis. Come on, this is very far fetched.

    We had a strong and functioning Modern Arnis organisation set up before we met him and I know that he was impressed by that. By the way we handeled the uniform. On his first seminar in Germany in January 1994 we attended with 20 blackbelts in HIS unifgorm, where Gaby and the girls all wore Kung-Fu uniforms with belts. (He designed the red pants with the white t-shirt in the 70ies. You can see it in his pink book).
    By the way we treated Modern Arnis as a stand alone art and not only as a supplement to JiuJutsu, Kempo or Karate.
    By the way we and I taught the students and by the quality and standard we set with our gradings.

    After the 1996 grading he said publicly: "It was very impressive. Erverybody learned selfdefense. That is the key. I am very proud of the German Arnis Association, for what they are doing. You keep the good work. You are doing right. You upift the standard of Arnis throughout the world. Thank you."
    I have it on tape.

    And thats why he brought americans over to Germany to whitness our gradings. He asked Al Garza in 1997 to invite me to teach in Texas (what I did a year later) and in 1999 he requested Jeff Delaney to invite me to Texas too.

    If DAV program or not is not important. Important is that it is MODERN ARNIS.

    You can bet what you want but I have been living in english speaking countries for more that 2 years and I KNOW, that there was no misunderstanding through the language between him and me in that matter. Everything was very clear.

    Important for me is not, if you or anybody else belives it. Important for me is, that he gave it to me. This is all that counts.

    Regards


    Dieter Knüttel
    Datu of Modern Arnis
     
  18. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Mr. Knüttel, what are the ranks in the DAV? I ask because I don't see any "0th degree" Lakans there--do you not use that rank?

    Is 10th the highest rank? Presumably this is not yet applicable.
     
  19. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    For the record the posts between Deiter and I are from the WMAC forum and I posted them here for the benefit of our members who are not a member of both forums.
     
  20. Dieter

    Dieter Brown Belt

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    Arnisador asked:


    We have 5 student levels and 10 Lankan/Dayang, Dan or black belt levels.

    I asked Remy about the 0th Degree (not even the name makes sense)
    and he explained it to me this way:

    In his pink book it says, after the student levels:

    Black (rimmed with red) -------- Lakan ---- Dayang
    1st Dan ----------------------- Isa ------ Isa
    2nd Dan ---------------------- Dalawa --- Dalawa
    3rd Dan ---------------------- Tatlo ----- Tatlo
    etc.

    He said, that the first line, Black (rimmed wirth red ) etc. was the HEADLINE for the blackbelts.
    But when he came to the US, it was misinterpreted as a separate rank. So it was done this way, estabished this way and he never really bothered to correct it.

    It was then declared as a "provisional black belt".

    When you look at ALL other martial arts, that have Dan degrees, I don´t know of any, that uses a "0 Dan" degree.

    So when a brown belt passes the exam to black belt, he has the first black belt and that is Lakan Isa.
    Remy was well aware of that and never had any objections.

    For your second question, as mentioned above, in Modern Arnis there are 10 Dan levels. Within the DAV I am the currently the highest rank with 6th Dan. But we acknowledge for example Roland Dantes or Rodel Dagoog with their 8th Dans of course.


    Regards from Germany

    Dieter Knüttel
    Datu of Modern Arnis
     

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