Modern Arnis compared to other FMA

[Dieter]

Hi everybody,

I would like to start a thread where I want to find out, how you all see the difference of Modern Arnis compared to other FMA.

What do you think is so special about it comapred to the .... FMA system.

For you might have read about the slight differences Tim and I had about what Modern Arnis is, I would like to find out, especially from the american Modern Arnis practitioners.

We have our definition and difference to other styles here in Germany based on our experience in Modern Arnis that I will post a little later, when this thread is running.

What is yours?


Looking forward for many answers

Best regards from Germany

Dsieter Knüttel
Datu of Modern Arnis

 

[dearnis.com]

I see Modern Arnis, at least as typically taught, as more broad than many of the other FMA styles I have been exposed to, particularly in terms of empty hand translation and application. This is not say that some pratitioners do not go into great depth on different aspects, but the public image tends to be more broad.
I think the biggest difference is in teaching methodology. In his development of Modern Arnis Professor focused on creating a seminar-friendly art and a seminar based teaching method.
(Now before anyone flips out and reads this as disrespectful take a few breaths, read the whole post, and think about what I am saying).
Professor really focused on getting his art out to the people, and in giving students, especially new students, something they could do and feel good about in a very short time. His presentation of the art was based on 4-5 hour blocks of instruction and closely related techniques. Even at the camps, the three hour blocks that made up the days could, in most cases, have stood alone as mini-seminars. Also, with the "art within your art" philosophy Professor spent a great deal of his time reaching out to practitioners of other styles, and streamlining them into Modern Arnis by showing the connection between the arts, and functionally teaching us new things about our original system (s) (and my feeling is that this applies to many if not most of us on this group).
Where a great many of us (or me anyway..) had difficulty was integrating this "seminar presentation into daily practice, or breaking the material down further into the 50 to 90 minute blocks most of us have to work with in teaching. And that was always the challenge he ended sessions with "now go back and teach this so you will have it; otherwise you will forget."
My experience in most other FMAs has been that of a more structured curriculum, and a more regimented teaching method. Also, for lack of a better word, Modern Arnis always seemed more open.

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by dearnis.com


My experience in most other FMAs has been that of a more structured curriculum, and a more regimented teaching method. Also, for lack of a better word, Modern Arnis always seemed more open. [/B]

This is interesting. I have always viewed most FMA styles as LESS structured and that structure is one (of many) contributions of Modern Arnis. Other teachers I have seen throw everything at the students at once, and its the students responsiblity to take what he wants. Modern Arnis actually HAS a cirriculum where others have none. One way is not really better than the other, but each has strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Dan Anderson]

I'll go off the deep end with my reply here. I believe Modern Arnis was taught in the same fashion as jujutsu in the 1900's, basically as a series of fighting techniques but not systemitized in an actual progression. I have used the anaolgy of Prof. Presas teaching a seminar in the manner of throwing a bucket of confetti and whatever stuck, stuck. I think MA has had it's students create formalized curriculums rather than it's founder. I think that is the main difference.

The second difference is that it has been presented as a system of self defense rather than a system of stick fighting as many other systems of FMA. Again, you'll notice that actual free sparring in MA has not been really taught be Prof. Presas but included by many of his students.

My two cents worth.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - Did any of you know that the hard copy of the book Advanced Modern Arnis - A Road To Mastery is not out? Thought this would be a good time for a shameless plug. DA

 

[dearnis.com]

I think Dan sums it up pretty well. He also hits the reason for what I see as a lack of structure: curriculums. Many exist, all created by students, and none particulalry followed by Professor while he was teaching.
Chad
PS Check you text Dan- the hard copy is not out??? Or should it be now out? either way; if it is out it is worth having.

 

[arnisandyz]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

I think MA has had it's students create formalized curriculums rather than it's founder. I think that is the main difference.

The second difference is that it has been presented as a system of self defense rather than a system of stick fighting as many other systems of FMA. Again, you'll notice that actual free sparring in MA has not been really taught be Prof. Presas but included by many of his students.


points well taken, thank you.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by dearnis.com

PS Check you text Dan- the hard copy is not out??? Or should it be now out? either way; if it is out it is worth having.

Big Daddy Chad,
Go to the website listed below. The hard copy book is up and ready to go. ...and it looks gooooood. I finally found a printer who could make the photos rival (in print quality) anything put out by Tuttle, Inc.

Dan

 

[Cebu West]

I believe that many Modern Arnis students were unaware of a curriculum or even the fact that there were names for techniques until it was time to test for black belt. You would learn many things during seminars but when it was time to recall later on what you had learned you would find yourself asking someone else "Do you know the one where you." After working it out for a while the term "Oh that one" was often used. I remember Datu Hartman and his Can-Am organization having a written and structured curriculum early on, however if you were not part of his group the formal terminology was foreign to you even though you knew the moves. One way to remember things was to put them in groups of 3 or 4 and work on them like that.

Now as a member school in Datu Hartman's WMAA, I find the well documented curriculum a welcome change from the past method of just trying to remember techniques with no names.

SAL

 

[bloodwood]

Professor's teachings were definitely geared for the seminar student which left the teaching of the Modern Arnis system to the school instructors. As opposed to other oriental art forms where a strict discipline and curriculum are adhered to, much Modern Arnis training was a mixed bag of whatever the school owner felt like working on, or going over new stuff that was just seen at a recent seminar. Even if the new material was well over the heads of new students, that's what was taught. Things were all over the place. This loose structured atmosphere was also one of the reasons why Modern Arnis was so popular. It was FUN.

"Do you know the one where you" Yes I have heard that a lot. I think it's part of Modern Arnis

 

[arnisandyz]

From what I am hearing, the Professor's teachings (and not that of his students) was more traditional in the way other FMAs are taught that I have seen. However who came up with the belt ranking system and what is needed in order to achieve a given belt? I thought the professor had some type of guideline for this . Also, another member posted that most of the MA is self-defense based and not as much fighting/sport training. However, I recall in Professor's book an entire section dedicated to the tournament fighting, rules, etc. It could be it depends on when you started in Modern Arnis. Didn't the professor introduce MA to the Philippine education system, that is still going on today? My wife tells me its required Physical Ed in college for the men, and my uncles confirmed this. If this is the case, wouldn't it be taugh more in the direction of calesthenics or physical training? Back then, (so I'm told) the general public looked at FMA as very violent, that only criminals and bandits did it, classy people don't do Arnis, etc... The professor changed the peoples opinions of the art by introducing it as a sport or exercise. Perhaps when the Professor came to the states he "went with the flow" of the culture and changed his focus to stressing more self-defense, which it was origionally designed for. Just ideas.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

The second difference is that it has been presented as a system of self defense rather than a system of stick fighting

I think this is the big one; the curriculum helps too of course.

Now if only someone would write a book on it!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by arnisador



I think this is the big one; the curriculum helps too of course.

Now if only someone would write a book on it!

:rofl:


Only if Dan takes the pictures for me!

:rofl:

 

[bloodwood]

When the Professor first started Modern Arnis, and noted in his pink book, there were only three color belts. White, Brown and Black. When the other colors came into play, I don't know. Maybe some can shed some light on that.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by arnisandyz

However who came up with the belt ranking system and what is needed in order to achieve a given belt? I thought the professor had some type of guideline for this .

Nope! MANY of us over the years presented him with some sort of requirements only to be met with a "no answer." So, each school that taught Modern Arnis as a separate curriculum came up with our own requirements. Also, on EVERY board I sat on, Prof. Presas would come up to the board and say, "so and so is going for black belt. He is very good." which meant he got promoted whether he was good or not. The board members figured out where everybody else was in terms of under belts. Sorry but that's the way it happened.

Also, another member posted that most of the MA is self-defense based and not as much fighting/sport training. However, I recall in Professor's book an entire section dedicated to the tournament fighting, rules, etc.

That was me. He NEVER taught tournament fighting or unstructured free sparring (as in karate). Why, I don't know.

It could be it depends on when you started in Modern Arnis.


Yes. When and where. I never studied with him in the Philippines so I don't know if he taught competitive sparring there or not.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by arnisador



I think this is the big one; the curriculum helps too of course.

Now if only someone would write a book on it!

Funny you should mention that. I am in the process of putting together a curriculum book for Modern Arnis 80, my style of MA. It'll take a while as I have another book project I am working on. And yes Rich, I'll take the pictures. If you want to be in them...

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson



Funny you should mention that. I am in the process of putting together a curriculum book for Modern Arnis 80, my style of MA. It'll take a while as I have another book project I am working on. And yes Rich, I'll take the pictures. If you want to be in them...

Yours,
Dan Anderson

HMMMMM, Me and Pictures, that could be bad for business. I might scare more people away from reading the book. Quote from unknown reviewer: " We are not quite sure if it is the technique or face on the guy that scared the opponent away."

Let me think on it for a while.
(* Looking for Plastic Surgeon *)

Seriously, I wish you Writer types the best in writing any books you have in mind, and I am always available to be that guy that seems to get beat up through the whole book, but somehow he keeps getting back up again. The Glasses are to cover the black eyes.

Talk to you all later.

Rich

 

[arnisador]

I've tried three times over two days on two different computers to order it--one time PayPal choked, the other two times it said its card verification system was down. I'll wait just in case it actually processed one of those despite the error messages then try again in a few days. If I ever do get through, a signed copy would be appreciated if possible!

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by arnisador

I've tried three times over two days on two different computers to order it--one time PayPal choked, the other two times it said its card verification system was down. I'll wait just in case it actually processed one of those despite the error messages then try again in a few days. If I ever do get through, a signed copy would be appreciated if possible!

Arnisador,
I just got off the phone with my computer guy 2 minutes ago and he's checking on it. He told me he ran a test run when setting it up and it went fine so it might be just a temporary PayPal glitch. I have not received any payment notifications for the3 book so I'll bet it was not processed.

On the signature, do you want the one time only signature or the standard one?

Yours,
Dan

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson



Arnisador,
I just got off the phone with my computer guy 2 minutes ago and he's checking on it. He told me he ran a test run when setting it up and it went fine so it might be just a temporary PayPal glitch. I have not received any payment notifications for the3 book so I'll bet it was not processed.

On the signature, do you want the one time only signature or the standard one?

Yours,
Dan

Should have had Bob do your site!

:iws: :sadsong: :cheers: