MMA vs Bjj: The ground and pound experiment

[Chris Parker]

Yeah… no, they weren't. That's the thing.

 

[O'Malley]

Where are the soccer kicks? That should be your first concern if you ever get on the ground in a street fight.

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah… no, they weren't. That's the thing.

Okay Chris.

Where are the soccer kicks? That should be your first concern if you ever get on the ground in a street fight.

Not if the guy lands on top of you. When they're on top of you your first concern is getting punched or elbowed in the head.

Avoiding getting kicked on the ground is comparatively easier than getting out from under someone on top of you.

 

[drop bear]

Where are the soccer kicks? That should be your first concern if you ever get on the ground in a street fight.

There were no up kicks from the guy on the ground either. It is what it is.

There is defences to being kicked while in guard there are tactics to doing it and not getting dragged down and subbed.

They are extra layers you could add on to that concept.

 

[RTKDCMB]

In a self defense situation you can get knocked to the ground, or tackled to the ground. While there you will more than likely get punched in the face. These guys are showing how Bjj responds to that situation.

The first BJJ guy in the video did not respond to it very well. If you cannot use BJJ to stop a barely trained thug on the ground from punching you then how do you expect to do it when your life depends on it?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The first BJJ guy in the video did not respond to it very well. If you cannot use BJJ to stop a barely trained thug on the ground from punching you then how do you expect to do it when your life depends on it?

I don't know anything about the guy being beat in the opening video. Firas says he's a BJJ practitioner, so maybe he has knowledge of the circumstances behind the video.

What I do know is that once he loses the back and ends up in bottom of guard, he doesn't even attempt any of the proper behaviors for defending against strikes on the bottom. That indicates that either a) he's not very experienced or b) he trains at a school that only addresses completion grappling and doesn't cover fighting against a striker* or c) both.

*(Such schools are unfortunately too common these days in my opinion.)

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Or Tony after the guy got out of the rear naked choke and punched him once he was fuzzy and couldn't apply standard BJJ ground and pound defenses?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Or Tony after the guy got out of the rear naked choke and punched him once he was fuzzy and couldn't apply standard BJJ ground and pound defenses?

Possibly, but a) I didn't see any proper attempts to stop the first punch, b) he may have been fuzzy but he wasn't out. He was reacting but not in a useful way. c) If all your defenses fall apart after eating one punch, then you really haven't internalized those defenses yet. It would be one thing if his defenses just got sloppy after taking a hit, but his defenses were non-existent.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know anything about the guy being beat in the opening video. Firas says he's a BJJ practitioner, so maybe he has knowledge of the circumstances behind the video.

What I do know is that once he loses the back and ends up in bottom of guard, he doesn't even attempt any of the proper behaviors for defending against strikes on the bottom. That indicates that either a) he's not very experienced or b) he trains at a school that only addresses completion grappling and doesn't cover fighting against a striker* or c) both.

*(Such schools are unfortunately too common these days in my opinion.)

It can be a tough position to fight from.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It can be a tough position to fight from.

Absolutely. All other factors being even, the guy on top has an advantage. Even if the guy on bottom was using proper technique, he could still lose. However when he doesn't even try to use proper technique to defend himself, it makes me think that either he never learned how to defend against strikes when on the bottom or else he hasn't spent enough time practicing those defenses.

 

[Hanzou]

The first BJJ guy in the video did not respond to it very well. If you cannot use BJJ to stop a barely trained thug on the ground from punching you then how do you expect to do it when your life depends on it?

Since we have numerous examples of Bjj exponents successfully defending themselves from the ground and pound, it's clear that if you fail it's because you lacked the proper training, or you didn't train hard enough.

That said, I'm always open to hear about TKD's response to a similar situation.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Possibly, but a) I didn't see any proper attempts to stop the first punch, b) he may have been fuzzy but he wasn't out. He was reacting but not in a useful way. c) If all your defenses fall apart after eating one punch, then you really haven't internalized those defenses yet. It would be one thing if his defenses just got sloppy after taking a hit, but his defenses were non-existent.

Agreed, however maybe he just has never been punched in the face. Everyone has a plan until then! In my opinion he just didn't look very skilled so maybe he hasn't internalized his BJJ training yet or maybe he just has never been punched in the face. We will never know for sure!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

One thing we do know for sure if you are on your back and a much bigger person with better attributes and a killer mindset is on top in your guard it probably will suck to be you! You may come out of it as the victor/survivor or not but it probably is going to suck during the process! When I look at that video clip the top guy was simply stronger, had better attributes and a kick *** mentality. That can go a long way in any confrontation!

 

[Hanzou]

One thing we do know for sure if you are on your back and a much bigger person with better attributes and a killer mindset is on top in your guard it probably will suck to be you! You may come out of it as the victor/survivor or not but it probably is going to suck during the process! When I look at that video clip the top guy was simply stronger, had better attributes and a kick *** mentality. That can go a long way in any confrontation!

My instructors made it pretty clear that no matter how good your guard is, you're going to get punched/hit in the face. Despite that, being in guard is far better than being under the mount.

 

[drop bear]

My instructors made it pretty clear that no matter how good your guard is, you're going to get punched/hit in the face. Despite that, being in guard is far better than being under the mount.

Not the only two choices.

Even the rear naked was risky because it can get turned around. We don't jump off top side unless we are bloody sure we are going to win the fight.

 

[RTKDCMB]

That said, I'm always open to hear about TKD's response to a similar situation.

Well when someone tried to get on top of me I kicked him in the face three times, got to one knee uppercutted him in the ribs and groin and then kneed him in the ribs on the way up from the half kneeling position.

 

[Hanzou]

Well when someone tried to get on top of me I kicked him in the face three times, got to one knee uppercutted him in the ribs and groin and then kneed him in the ribs on the way up from the half kneeling position.

Ah, performing an uppercut from kneeling position is an ancient technique. Here's one of the masters performing it;

I'm more partial to the flame version myself...

In all seriousness, I asked what TKD's answer for the ground and pound was, not what you (supposedly) did.

 

[Buka]

My instructors made it pretty clear that no matter how good your guard is, you're going to get punched/hit in the face.

Yes. That's why it's called a fight.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Ah, performing an uppercut from kneeling position is an ancient technique. Here's one of the masters performing it;

I'm more partial to the flame version myself...

In all seriousness, I asked what TKD's answer for the ground and pound was, not what you (supposedly) did.

You're kidding right? And that's a jumping uppercut.

Last time I checked, I have provided more evidence of my martial arts training than you have of yours.

 

[Hanzou]

You're kidding right? And that's a jumping uppercut.

Starting from kneeling position, and hitting the groin, ribs, and head.

Last time I checked, I have provided more evidence of my martial arts training than you have of yours.

You posted people in your dojang sparring each other. I've also posted videos of my peers sparring, and my former instructor doing instructional vids.

In any case, this discussion is about the ground and pound. Kind of hard to kick someone in the face three times and uppercut them in the nuts while they're on top of you.