mma is a made up martial art.

[Dr.Smith]

See this is what I'm talking about when I point out that there's a mental health issue at the root of most of these mma conversations. Listen to me here. Buddhism has been a huge part of all the martial arts from Japan and China for hundreds and hundreds of years right, what does the Buddha say, the Buddha says that attachment to the things of this world cause pain. Now I'm not a Buddhist but I gotta say that number one classas a scholar I am not going to ignore or steal from history and claim I discovered it personally in an attempt to validate myself or build my own self esteem. Mixing combat effective arts is Not new... If you can't accept that then you have a serious problem dealing with reality, that is a mental health issue, doesn't mean your bad or less of a person it just means you have an issue.
I'm a paranoid schizophrenic with PTSD, from my point of view I cannot afford to walk around in a world where I entertain the notion that I'm some kind martial arts founder or some kind of cutting edge martial artist lols I mean how bizarre would that make me all other things considered.
Its simple guys, this whole thing is a play on words, mma is an acronym that we should all be able to use when we need to describe a whole host of different martial arts, we need to get real with ourselves when we talk about this. Love mma love watching fights love the martial arts and their rich history sorry to see it go to the dogs.

 

[Dr.Smith]

I did hybrid systems. there was Zen do Kai in Australia. And it was ok.

But better martial artists are doing mma. You never got the top guys in their respective disciplines collaborating like they do now.

It is a much better refined idea. Than you tended to get previously.
OK some of what you said is very true, let's look at the parts of your statement that are rooted in reality and ask ourselves how we can keep that ball rolling.
1. You said you've done hybrid martial arts in the past...good, this means you have actual experience and training in a mixed system. This allows you to know the concept is real, not a figment of your or my imagination.
2. You said that better guys are doing mma, by better I assume you mean better athletes and fighters. Yes better fighters and athletes are performing in mma matches, the people you see in ufc are usually very very good fighters and athletes not always or even usually good martial artists.
Now take the two reality based observations you made above and combine them and see what you get. What you might get isthat , not all mma systems are the same and not all people who do them are fighters or

By the way mma is making other arts better because of that collaboration new ideas are being integrated into traditional styles while traditional styles are being integrated into mma.

 

[Dr.Smith]

OK, here's how I would like to continue this conversation, because I think this is valid. In the eighties and nineties why didn't magazines black belt and inside karate every cover jujitsu and everything that was going on in calli with jujitsu tournaments, on a few ocassions they covered judo gene lebelle like he was a saint.... I find it kinda odd.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

It's not at all true that there was never the level of cross polination you see today. Stories abound of Bruce Lee, Ed Parker Sr, Chuck Norris, Gene LeBell, and many others training together and sharing information in the 60s and 70s. One difference from that training and mma is that they learned from, but didn't simply absorb, if that makes sense. Someone might learn a techniques or sequence, but they would still look like their core system.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

See my post #416 on page 21. There's nothing new about cross-pollination. What's new is the sheer scale of the thing in modern MMA.

 

[Dr.Smith]

Right there isn't anything new about any of it and that's the reality, there isn't any thing new about its magnitude either and before you go crazy just stop and be willing to open your mind for a different view. How about the WWF or the wcw, you can't say that the ufc or any other version of mma is bigger than wrestling ever was.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Right there isn't anything new about any of it and that's the reality, there isn't any thing new about its magnitude either and before you go crazy just stop and be willing to open your mind for a different view. How about the WWF or the wcw, you can't say that the ufc or any other version of mma is bigger than wrestling ever was.

I'm not quite sure of what you are trying to say here. My point was that the scale of cross-pollination and cross-art full contact testing in modern MMA is historically unprecedented. The WWF and WCW have nothing to do with testing or cross-pollination of any martial art. They're a form of live theatre combining soap opera with action movies.

 

[Dr.Smith]

OK I see where your going with that to a degree.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Right there isn't anything new about any of it and that's the reality, there isn't any thing new about its magnitude either and before you go crazy just stop and be willing to open your mind for a different view. How about the WWF or the wcw, you can't say that the ufc or any other version of mma is bigger than wrestling ever was.

So you're saying that UFC matches are as fake as the WWF shows?

 

[Dr.Smith]

[QUOT. "Dirty Dog, post: 1711190, member: 20725"]So you're saying that UFC matches are as fake as the WWF shows?[/QUOTE]
Oh no way man, I would never nerve say something even similar to that, no sir not at all in the least. However in terms of mixing arts professional wrestling has a huge history from Japan and the Japanese version the Rhodes system I believe had a huge influence on american professional wrestling. Not to mention the way it reflected pop culture and counter in the eighties and nineties which is all the UTC does now days lols.

 

[jks9199]

What geographical area would that have consisted of?

All over the US, at a minimum. I know of training events in California, Ohio, New York, Texas, Delaware, Maryland... and those are just the ones I personally know folks who took part. I'm quite certain there were many others.

 

[Hyoho]

I would not say they are fake but its still Martial Arts Entertainment. Lets hope it doesn't all turn into a Mayweather/Pakman debacle.

Dr.Smith I think you need to leave Buddhism out of the mix. The main reason Japanese Bujutsu identified with it was preparation for death at any time. To die with or for ones master. It really does does not apply to this.

Lets face it when all's said and done it's done for money. Even in Japan today Budo teachers are paid by the education authority with a Phys/Ed degree or as police. We get 'expenses' only. The Nippon Budokan charter clearly states the aims and expectations. There are few private dojo operating on other than a money to pay rent basis.

The whole thing has got turned on its head for making money and using words that have little or no relationship to the original concepts. I just love this word "adaptation". We practice an art and then add our own character to it to make it special. Now and then somebody special turns up that actually forms their own artistic concept. But the most part its people that can't do the original to a high degree, add their own little bits and call it 'adaptation'.

I don't think MMA downgrades the original concepts. It is what it is and we should accept it for that. But can MMA people do that?

 

[Dr.Smith]

I would not say they are fake but its still Martial Arts Entertainment. Lets hope it doesn't all turn into a Mayweather/Pakman debacle.

Dr.Smith I think you need to leave Buddhism out of the mix. The main reason Japanese Bujutsu identified with it was preparation for death at any time. To die with or for ones master. It really does does not apply to this.

Lets face it when all's said and done it's done for money. Even in Japan today Budo teachers are paid by the education authority with a Phys/Ed degree or as police. We get 'expenses' only. The Nippon Budokan charter clearly states the aims and expectations. There are few private dojo operating on other than a money to pay rent basis.

The whole thing has got turned on its head for making money and using words that have little or no relationship to the original concepts. I just love this word "adaptation". We practice an art and then add our own character to it to make it special. Now and then somebody special turns up that actually forms their own artistic concept. But the most part its people that can't do the original to a high degree, add their own little bits and call it 'adaptation'.

I don't think MMA downgrades the original concepts. It is what it is and we should accept it for that. But can MMA people do that?

Umm...NO WAY JOSE... Clear enough for ya. Your statement about Japanese people preparing for death with Buddhist teaching is very accurate. I'm going to keep saying because it keeps me sane frankly but letting go of ones attachments to all that ego driven stuff is very very difficult and honestly all I see coming from today's mma guys is nothing but ego driven horn tooting macho crap, and I for one am not going to let anyone try to tell me that in order to be a good martial artist I have to look like or act like some phycopath ufc fighter jacked on roids coke and publicity. Doesn't matter what your faith is or what it isn't both history and dogma will both verify that today's mma is a total joke and its already been done. Its simple nobody in this day and age has a single solitary thing incommon with an actual true to life martial arts ounder

 

[Hyoho]

Your statement about Japanese people preparing for death with Buddhist teaching is very accurate.

Thank you for saying so. Because of buddhism and more than a few years doing Budo. It has perhaps taught me to have little more reservation in criticism. Mi o asaku omoi yo o fukaku omou. Have fun!

 

[drop bear]

Umm...NO WAY JOSE... Clear enough for ya. Your statement about Japanese people preparing for death with Buddhist teaching is very accurate. I'm going to keep saying because it keeps me sane frankly but letting go of ones attachments to all that ego driven stuff is very very difficult and honestly all I see coming from today's mma guys is nothing but ego driven horn tooting macho crap, and I for one am not going to let anyone try to tell me that in order to be a good martial artist I have to look like or act like some phycopath ufc fighter jacked on roids coke and publicity. Doesn't matter what your faith is or what it isn't both history and dogma will both verify that today's mma is a total joke and its already been done. Its simple nobody in this day and age has a single solitary thing in common with an actual true to life martial arts founder

What is your alternative as a martial artist?

 

[Langenschwert]

While I'm a fan of MMA, I'm not a fan of the MMA "scene" as in the publicity engine behind it. I want to see good clean sporting matches between skilled fighters. I'm not interested in trash talk, though I realize organizations like the UFC encourage it in order to play up upcoming fights. It's a proven way to promote the event, so I understand why it's done.

However, I got into MMA as a spectator back in the days of Chuck, Randy, Rich and the rest. For me, that was the golden age. Very little trash talk and interesting match-ups. Huerta vs. Guida, GSP vs Huges, and the shock of Jardine picking apart Liddell. I couldn't believe it when it happened. Halcyon days gone by, eh?

Now, not so much. It seems like the UFC isn't putting as much into developing the fighters... it's more of a meat grinder. I'm still ticked that Guida never got a title shot... they always put "just one more" in front of him. What a waste.

 

[Tez3]

I'm not interested in trash talk,

We tend not to have very much here, probably because we aren't very good at it! ( apart from the Geordies but then nobody understands what they are saying anyway so that doesn't count) I don't know whether to be ashamed or proud of that

There tends too not to be much in the European matches either, perhaps it just doesn't work we all start laughing including the fighters.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

We tend not to have very much here, probably because we aren't very good at it! ( apart from the Geordies but then nobody understands what they are saying anyway so that doesn't count) I don't know whether to be ashamed or proud of that

There tends too not to be much in the European matches either, perhaps it just doesn't work we all start laughing including the fighters.

Conor McGregor seems to have the hang of it.

 

[Tez3]

Conor McGregor seems to have the hang of it.

I knew someone would say that. Conor McGregor is not British, he's a citizen of the Irish Republic otherwise known as Eire. he would be mortified if you thought he was British.

Ireland government. National political party for Ireland government. Chief of state president political parties in Ireland. - CountryReports

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Let's hope the Aldo/McGregor fight happens Tez3 after Aldo announced he has broken ribs.

 

[Tez3]

Let's hope the Aldo/McGregor fight happens Tez3 after Aldo announced he has broken ribs.

They say it will, but John Kavanagh Conor's coach says they still don't know! Some people are saying it will go ahead and if Aldo gets beaten he will say it's because he's injured, I suppose those comments were obvious. :-(