Meth

[thardey]

Yeah, Oregon is known as the "New Columbia" as far as meth goes, because of all the Meth labs here.

Notice that three of the posters in this thread so far are from Oregon. And Dave's not that far from here. And the family troubles I was talking about? Those are in Portland.


I'm glad there's a distinction between "meth users" and "hyped up meth users". There are so many here that I don't recognize, but other users, or ex-users can, in a heartbeat. I don't want to assume that anybody could just randomly trip out on me, or someone I know.

They say that meth is the number one motivation for crime here, but, like shesulsa said, they'll stop at nothing to get more. So most of the crime is aimed at getting money for more drugs, not just violence in general. (Although some of the crime is violent.) Mostly identity theft, and holding up sandwich shops at night. But then again, the news here doesn't report on most violent encounters, unless there's a good, juicy story behind it. I know the police here absolutely hate it, and it scares them.

I like the idea of the "flowing" locks in general. When we practice grappling, I've noticed that it's very rare to be able to hold someone in submission, but that you can often stay in control of them, even while they are still moving. I guess that's why it's useful to know several options for joint locks and such.

 

[thardey]

If it were me, I would call the police and report the weird smells. If they are not doing anything illegal, there's no problem. But you do NOT want the house next door to explode. Meth labs are known to do that.

There's been a few around here (in the rural part of the community) that have done that. And "explode" is not exaggerating.

 

[Lynne]

Lynne,

Take a look at http://www.springsgov.com/Page.asp?NavID=1791; this was posted by the Metro VNI where I live.

Thanks for the link, atinsley. Hmm. Well, things to do seem suspicious after reading that. Next time I smell something weird, I'll all the Sheriff's department and note which direction the wind is coming from. (Oh, these people use their backyard as a dump - they have a big hole where they've dumped computers and stuff. We have natural well water...)

About the house exploding comment - my neighbors aren't the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree and would probably be apt to do something r-e-a-l-l-y stupid if they're running a meth lab.

Yeah - I don't want to smell noxious/dangerous fumes either.

 

[shesulsa]

Yeah, Oregon is known as the "New Columbia" as far as meth goes, because of all the Meth labs here.

Dittos for Vancouver as well - I've been told meth is *the* biggest problem in SW Washington.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I have a new job (bartending) that requires me to discourage meth use. Once we got rid of the employees with the sores on their face, the costomers we didn't want sort of drifted away with them. The last incident I was present for involved us kicking out a group of people that looked like hell, but they just started smoking it in our parking lot, and when we caught them they just waved and smiled. We just told them the police were on the way in between profanities and they left. I suspect I get to deal with it a lot more given our location.
Sean

 

[Dave Leverich]

Nasty stuff, no question about it.
Lock-flow (as I've always called it) seems to be a good method, but again, if they're feeling no pain... it's hard to use a pain method to control them, even breaking limbs can have less than anticipated results.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Nasty stuff, no question about it.
Lock-flow (as I've always called it) seems to be a good method, but again, if they're feeling no pain... it's hard to use a pain method to control them, even breaking limbs can have less than anticipated results.

You really have to destroy the skeletel structure in some manner. Bend his knee back the wrong way and he won't be able to support his own weight even with an heightened pain tolerance.
Sean

 

[Rich Parsons]

As a side note, that flowing from one contain/control technique to another and another and so on is an important skill to have, especially in cases such as this. I think there's a general mentality of finding "THE lock" or "THE tech" that stops the perp in their tracks or gets them to the ground and ends the tousle. We've gotten great feedback from officers who were *very* skeptical about the idea of flow but once they tried it in the field under similar circumstances were grateful for the knowledge.

However, it is STILL a DANGEROUS (to say the least) undertaking, getting into it with someone on speed. It's not something I want to ever have to do. Props to you, Rich.

After the police officer arrived and the guy went outside with the officer behind him. I was no longer worried. I did see the car outside still so I went outside to see if somethign was wrong. The two of them were rolling on the ground. Not wanting to step in the middle of something, I asked the officer if he needed help? He replied No. I waited about 30 more seconds and realized it really was not going well, so I asked if he wanted me to call on the phone for back-up or on his radio in the car? He then replied come over here and help me. I guess by sticking around and asking again he believed I was serious about offering help. I understand his concern of a civilian involved with a detention and or possible getting hurt.

I do accept your kind words "G", but at the time it was not to prove I was the best or bigger, or tough, the officer needed help, and if he was a civilian or not in uniform I would not even have bothered to ask I would have just helped. It is a part of who I am.

I agree I would not "WANT" to get involved with anyone drugged up. I would not want to leave anyone who was in danger though.

 

[shesulsa]

Just for clarity Rich, I have no thoughts that you were trying to prove anything to anyone.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Meth often times uses ammonia in its manufacture. Labs sometimes smell like cat piss.

The faces of meth

 

[kidswarrior]

I'm going to go out on a limb and just post something I learned long ago without researching it for updated info. So, if it's all changed and I'm all wet, someone please just tell me. :asian:

35 years ago when I was in school to become a Navy/Marine Corpsman, we learned that adrenaline--the flight or fight 'drug' which the body produces naturally--was in reality just a natural form of 'speed.' This is why when we get mad or scared in a fight, we don't feel the pain so much at the time, and our reflexes are much faster. I think probably many would agree that the fighter who best handles this 'adrenaline dump' often has a much better chance of winning (speaking in generalities here). I've even read that for someone middle aged or older, the pre-fight adrenaline rush can actually kill them (us ), as it has a good chance of stopping the heart in an out of shape person.

My point is, if the body does this on its own in certain situations, one can imagine how man made, chemically enhanced versions could act exponentially and account for all the dire warnings and experiences in the excellent posts above.

 

[jks9199]

Meth labs are typically accompanied by powerful chemical smells, because the process involves lots of powerful, nasty chemicals like ether. And meth labs are simply bombs waiting to go off... Any more, taking one down ends up looking like a chemical warfare operation because of the dangers of the chemicals involved.

If you have ANY suspicion that there's a meth lab near you -- call the cops. They'll do various things to investigate and confirm, and then take it down safely.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Meth labs are typically accompanied by powerful chemical smells, because the process involves lots of powerful, nasty chemicals like ether. And meth labs are simply bombs waiting to go off... Any more, taking one down ends up looking like a chemical warfare operation because of the dangers of the chemicals involved.

If you have ANY suspicion that there's a meth lab near you -- call the cops. They'll do various things to investigate and confirm, and then take it down safely.

Although fires still happen, Meth is generaly made with sulfuric and sodium hydroxide. The "Nazi Method" of using ether and what not is more dangerous and therfore less popular with cooks that have been up for three weeks.
Sean

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Nothing I can add to what those who have posted before and "seen the elephant", except to "aim for the 'T' "--the ones who understand the slang will understand, those who don't should get the training that will cause you to know what it means.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Nothing I can add to what those who have posted before and "seen the elephant", except to "aim for the 'T' "--the ones who understand the slang will understand, those who don't should get the training that will cause you to know what it means.

Verticle T take down is all I got out of it, and that wouldn't be wise; so, your slang escapes me. Oh well.
Sean

 

[Drac]

Meth labs are typically accompanied by powerful chemical smells, because the process involves lots of powerful, nasty chemicals like ether. And meth labs are simply bombs waiting to go off... Any more, taking one down ends up looking like a chemical warfare operation because of the dangers of the chemicals involved.

If you have ANY suspicion that there's a meth lab near you -- call the cops. They'll do various things to investigate and confirm, and then take it down safely.

Well said..Read and heed....

 

[Balrog]

How does one best survive an encounter with a paranoid person, who's on meth? Can you tell? Can you calm them down somehow?

Right now, this is rapidly becoming the most likely confrontation I'll run into. What's the best way to de-escalate, and get out of the situation with my own skin, and my family's?

In a nutshell: the odds are highly against you calming them down.

Sadly, you almost have to think of the meth as being a deadly weapon and respond accordingly. Pressure points stop working because meth short-circuits the pain response. Same for lockups. Meth-heads will respond to a lockup by breaking their own bones to get to you, so don't expect to immobilize and control with a hammerlock, for example.

Best suggestion: run like hell. If you can't, sweep a leg and as they fall, run like hell. If you can't, things are going to get.....interesting....for a while.

 

[DavidCC]

Thanks for the link, atinsley. Hmm. Well, things to do seem suspicious after reading that. Next time I smell something weird, I'll all the Sheriff's department and note which direction the wind is coming from. (Oh, these people use their backyard as a dump - they have a big hole where they've dumped computers and stuff. We have natural well water...)

About the house exploding comment - my neighbors aren't the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree and would probably be apt to do something r-e-a-l-l-y stupid if they're running a meth lab.

Yeah - I don't want to smell noxious/dangerous fumes either.

they may also be doing some illegal electronics recycling (no I'm not joking) which isn't nearly as danerous or smnelly as a meth lab. My friend's grandfather also likes ot burn the insulation off of old coper wire and then sells it :idunno:

 

[Lynne]

they may also be doing some illegal electronics recycling (no I'm not joking) which isn't nearly as danerous or smnelly as a meth lab. My friend's grandfather also likes ot burn the insulation off of old coper wire and then sells it :idunno:

Hey David - my husband and I are trying to be aware. Nothing would surprise me. The son lives upstairs in a small apartment and has the required macho pitbull on a chain outside (which got loose and mildly attacked my german shepherd as I was walking him). It's the general redneck scenario with a bunch of cars in the frontyard, speeding up and down the road 95 mph on a piece of junk Ninja bike at 1:00 am, domestic disputes loud enough to wake the dead, etc.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

[qu

Sadly, you almost have to think of the meth as being a deadly weapon and respond accordingly. Pressure points stop working because meth short-circuits the pain response. Same for lockups. Meth-heads will respond to a lockup by breaking their own bones to get to you, so don't expect to immobilize and control with a hammerlock, for example.

Best suggestion: run like hell. If you can't, sweep a leg and as they fall, run like hell. If you can't, things are going to get.....interesting....for a while.[/quote]

I agree with some of what you said, but some of it is conditional, people respond to the drug in different degrees and it's not usually anything like PCP. You can make a tweaker scream, trust me.
Yes they will be more adjutated and more willing to fight, yes they will take pain better than when normally pissed off, but rarely do they become the Supermen you describe. Those people are dealy no matter what.