Matsumura and Itosu Rohai

[Makalakumu]

There is one of the main differences I have found between the two styles. You want to look deadly, I simply want to enjoy the movement. What it looks like matters only to the bystander, and their opinion or praise is not my goal. From what I know of internet speak, IMO means "In my opinion", and yes I would agree it is your opinion.

This is a serious question and I do not want to seem disrespectful by asking it, "couldn't you get the same enjoyment that you get from practicing forms by practicing dance?" Or any other form of movement? Why do martial arts forms attract you over these other activities?

For me, the answer is simple. The forms mean something and I want to know what they mean.

 

[Andy Cap]

That is a very fair question, and no offense taken.

My statement was regarding how the form looks, not how it feels. I do enjoy the power in my forms. I do visualize what I am doing, and it isn't the ramba. However, are forms designed to look "cool" or are they designed to develop better movement and efficiency?

Yes, my forms are very similar to Shotokan or other styles - those stylists could be flattered that Hwang Kee chose their forms for his style. He may have changed or altered them - true. However, let us take a classic form as an example - Bassai/Passai. This form is known by many names and many versions - to name a few;
Matsumura-Passai-Dai, Sho
Tawada-Passai
Itosu-Passai Dai, Sho
Ishimine-Passai
Teruya-Passai
Matsumora-Passai
Oyadomari-Passai
Sekiryo-Passai
Ichigina-Passai
Motobu-Passai
Tomari-Passai
Kyan-Passai
Funakoshi-Bassai-Dai, Sho
Chibana-Passai
Azato-Passai
Oshiro-Passai

So, who has the original, and are the rest wrong? Do they all look deadly, and are the deadliest looking versions the best? I am sure you can see where I am going with this.
Forms are meant to be a learning tool, as well as a meditative tool. I find a few of my forms to be very meditative. Other people do not have to like how I look when I do them because I do them for myself.

 

[okinawagojuryu]

I do not have Hwangs book in front of me , however it is common knowledge that he stated he learned Karate from books in the library , while in machuria . Please understand that JJ Kim KJN no doubt is good at what he does , however he nor any of my other instructors that I trained w/ have ever shown me any applications found within the Hyung/Kata . Personally , I do think he trained in some form of Karate , then combined it w/ what he seen practiced in Korea , & the Yang style TCC he learned from Yang Kuk Jin . However , I dont think he would ever admit that he trained under any Japanese instructor , because you gotta remember the Japanese & The Koreans dont have the best relationship due to their past , so he didnt wanna loose some face , & seem like a traitor to his people . I also believe he might of trained w/ Won Kuk Lee , or any of the other earlier kwan Jang's to refine his technique , before the development of the MDK . I have done some extensive research into the hitory of the MDK , & you can take a look at my angelfire site to see what I've found . However , I am no longer practicing TSD , so I have pretty much given up on any further TSD research , but dont mind sharing the knowledge I've acquired w/ others . I do hope it helps others to continue their research , & grow . If not , that is fine as well , after all it is my own opinion on research I made , & could be lieing , but then again why would I waste soooo much time on doing so .

 

[okinawagojuryu]

Hey Gene , look we're stupid now http://www.warrior-scholar.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=896 . Hey , sometimes the truth hurts !

 

[Bester]

Looks like someone has copied the entire thread there in violation of US Copyright law. Also looks like he was logged into this site and posted his Username as well...(looks at site rules and copyright notice at page bottom.) yup, thats a violation.

 

[shesulsa]

By, golly, you're right, Jim!

 

[shesulsa]

**Moderator Note**

This copyright issue has been reported to the site owner and Administrators and they'll take care of it.

For now, let's take this back to the topic.

G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Senior Moderator

 

[Andy Cap]

I do not have Hwangs book in front of me , however it is common knowledge that he stated he learned Karate from books in the library , while in machuria .

So, he learned from books in Manchuria. Did he state that the only lessons he had were from books in Manchuria? I read a book about computers in the library once - does that mean I learned how to design and configure a clustered Exchange 2003 environment from that book I read 10 years ago?

It could even be common knowledge that I read that book. Of course if that were my only computer education, I would not admin it. However, you imply Hwang Kee's only martial arts experience comes from a couple of books in Manchuria. He was obviously a very bright man. If that was the extent of his development, I am sure he would not have admitted it, yet you say he states he learned from these books.

Have you ever read a martial arts book? You are reading these forums - so now it is common knowledge that you learned martial arts from an internet forum.


Heck, if Hwang Kee learned karate from a book, and then went and developed the wonderful art he did - I have even greater respect for him because in that case he was obviously a prodigal genius.

When it really comes down to it...you will never convince me that Hwang Kee was anything less than a wonderful martial artist and instructor.

Please understand that JJ Kim KJN no doubt is good at what he does , however he nor any of my other instructors that I trained w/ have ever shown me any applications found within the Hyung/Kata

Huh? So they showed you hyung without showing you the applications? What do you mean b this? Do you mean that they never showed you the purpose of what was being done in the form? Or do you mean they never taught you the movements individually? Either way, I would be amazed.

 

[okinawagojuryu]

Andy ,

What it comes down to is being happy , if you're happy , I'm glad for you ; and no I've never been shown any type of applications by any TSD applications . Every class , we'd warm up & stretch , do basics forms , one steps , then fight , nothing more . Have a good weekend !

David

 

[Andy Cap]

Well if that is all you did, then you didn't see the whole art. I take it that you are saying you never did self defense against single opponent/armed/multiple, one step sparring, breaking? All of the Tang Soo Do schools I have gone to did these things.

In the end though, yes I would say I am happy with Tang Soo Do. And if you are happy then that is great as well. Have a fantastic weekend.