Martial Talk's GMA Martial Arts Lineages

[Andrew Green]

I was hoping that as well.... but some here are like "we dont care abotu lineages" etc etc "you should know what works". ALot of people dont get to "know" what works because most have never been in dire situations.

Figuring out what works and what doesn't requires a context. If you compete it's was to figure out what works in that context. If your goal is to get in shape, you can figure out what works.

In no context would I ever think "It works because my teachers teachers teachers teachers teachers teacher said it does, and he was kinda famous." Everyone one of those teachers would have made changes to things, intentionally or not. So even if the guy at the top of your pyramid was infallible, it's a game of telephone and messages change.

If what you do has no way of determining its functionality for the goals you have with it it's a dead art, lineage can't save that.

 

[Flying Crane]

If you really get into Lineages in Chinese martial arts, they go back a long long way, get rather complicated and at some point hard to prove.

Taijiquan is. by many, believed to go back to a mystical monk named Zhang Sanfeng. But if you want to trace it from now to him (if he existed) there will be big gaps and incredibly long branches away from Taiji because the Chen family knew a martial art before they allegedly developed Taijiquan. And it is thought it was likely a Paoqui, and that if that is the case it is very possible it came from Shaolin. So you are better of not going back to far.

In my lineage I could have also thrown in TKD to General Choi and Jujutsu to some unknown guy in Japan, then goto my first shifu...I have no idea who in China to link any of the arts I learned from him to, heck I even did a little time in a Fred Villari school. Too much to keep track of.... I stick with the Taiji lineage from Tnug Ying Chieh, I'm in it and it is easier

So you're not alone in this messed up lineage thing, that's for sure.

Oh yeah, it can get complicated. I was just listing my lineage for what I train now. I too have trained in a few different things, kenpo, capoeira, wing chun, and since you named Fred Villari, I'll go one better and admit that I trained for a bit with a Shaolin-do guy, from the Sin The lineage. Yeah, I did that.

But these all have a lineage that I could trace, to a degree.

 

[BigJavi973]

Oh yeah, it can get complicated. I was just listing my lineage for what I train now. I too have trained in a few different things, kenpo, capoeira, wing chun, and since you named Fred Villari, I'll go one better and admit that I trained for a bit with a Shaolin-do guy, from the Sin The lineage. Yeah, I did that.

But these all have a lineage that I could trace, to a degree.

you know who started with the shaolin do guy? The dude that did black belt jones and enter the dragon... kelly....

 

[Xue Sheng]

you know who started with the shaolin do guy? The dude that did black belt jones and enter the dragon... kelly....

and then he swiched to Okinawan Karate

 

[Flying Crane]

you know who started with the shaolin do guy? The dude that did black belt jones and enter the dragon... kelly....

I had not heard that. I thought he was kenpo under Steve Saunders, who I think changed his name to Steve Muhammad, if memory serves. Perhaps he did both?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I had not heard that. I thought he was kenpo under Steve Saunders, who I think changed his name to Steve Muhammad, if memory serves. Perhaps he did both?

If Wiki is correct Okinawan Karate under Parker Shelton, Nate Patton, and Gordon Doversola

 

[Flying Crane]

If Wiki is correct Okinawan Karate under Parker Shelton, Nate Patton, and Gordon Doversola

I think in Enter the Dragon, the scene where he visits his school before leaving for Mr. Han's island, that might have been Steve Muhammad. Maybe I just assumed he actually trained with him.

 

[kuniggety]

nice... Ive been thinking about going into BJJ myself... theres savarese BJJ who's under rafael lovato jr. in nj

You should drop by and check it out. There's no way to know whether you'll like it until you hop onto the mats.

 

[BigJavi973]

I had not heard that. I thought he was kenpo under Steve Saunders, who I think changed his name to Steve Muhammad, if memory serves. Perhaps he did both?

yea pretty much started with shaolin do at 1st... at least that's what I read a while back when I was reading up on that guy

 

[BigJavi973]

I think in Enter the Dragon, the scene where he visits his school before leaving for Mr. Han's island, that might have been Steve Muhammad. Maybe I just assumed he actually trained with him.

yes you are absolutely correct! Cant believe I almost forgot that I should slap myself silly smh

 

[BigJavi973]

You should drop by and check it out. There's no way to know whether you'll like it until you hop onto the mats.

I actually do like it... I have a friend that does bjj we spared but I was a bit bigger than him and since Im always reading I was able to keep my weight strickly on his chest ahaha but he wasnt a seasoned vet if not I probably woulda been in trouble

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think in Enter the Dragon, the scene where he visits his school before leaving for Mr. Han's island, that might have been Steve Muhammad. Maybe I just assumed he actually trained with him.

Just looked up Steve Muhammad, impressive guy

 

[Flying Crane]

Just looked up Steve Muhammad, impressive guy

It's funny, I tend to forget that a lot of the answers to these questions are quickly accessible. I just sit around wondering, all the time...

 

[frank raud]

I can check when I have time if you want!

It's funny, I tend to forget that a lot of the answers to these questions are quickly accessible. I just sit around wondering, all the time...

Pre-Google mind, or just really old.

 

[Flying Crane]

Pre-Google mind, or just really old.

Well, when I shave my beard I still get carded buying alcohol.

 

[Buka]

I think in Enter the Dragon, the scene where he visits his school before leaving for Mr. Han's island, that might have been Steve Muhammad. Maybe I just assumed he actually trained with him.

Steve Sanders at the time. I love that scene in the movie.

He had really fast hands in real life. Blazing. I think he was a Police Officer, Swat guy, in California somewhere.

 

[Hyoho]

Seems some people are getting the word 'lineage' mixed up with "The guy I learned from".

Black belts have nothing whatsoever to do with lineage. It's either hereditary or 'complete transmission'

 

[kuniggety]

Seems some people are getting the word 'lineage' mixed up with "The guy I learned from".

Black belts have nothing whatsoever to do with lineage. It's either hereditary or 'complete transmission'

That would depend on the system. In BJJ, lineage is often used to describe who awarded a black belt to who.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Seems some people are getting the word 'lineage' mixed up with "The guy I learned from".

Black belts have nothing whatsoever to do with lineage. It's either hereditary or 'complete transmission'

That's one way of defining lineage.

 

[Flying Crane]

Seems some people are getting the word 'lineage' mixed up with "The guy I learned from".

Black belts have nothing whatsoever to do with lineage. It's either hereditary or 'complete transmission'

I am not a Disciple with full transmission of the complete system, so I am not a lineage-holder. However, I do have a place within the lineage, as a student of someone.