Martial Talk's GMA Martial Arts Lineages

[Gerry Seymour]

its not anything chinese I can tell you that much

The same is true of many in MMA - no "black belt" in most MMA gyms, unless they are teaching each style separately (and some of the styles have the BB).

 

[BigJavi973]

Sure there is, everything I say online is a representation of me and my opinions at the time. I've got a lot of influences, and if I it is relevant to the discussion I will state who influenced a particular aspect.

If someone comes to my school and cares I'm happy to discuss it with them, but I'll be honest, someone that cares about lineage as much as you do is not likely to come into a MMA gym.

assuming much are you now? I'm a firm believer in ecclectic training. I have trained in kickboxing, boxing (im a huge, avid, boxing fan btw). You said yourself you haven't taught a karate program in 15 years... so whats the problem? Everyone else here seems to have no issue letting other users know who they learned from etc.

 

[CB Jones]

assuming much are you now? I'm a firm believer in ecclectic training. I have trained in kickboxing, boxing (im a huge, avid, boxing fan btw). You said yourself you haven't taught a karate program in 15 years... so whats the problem? Everyone else here seems to have no issue letting other users know who they learned from etc.

Man let it go.

You are beating a dead horse.

 

[BigJavi973]

Man let it go.

You are beating a dead horse.

I know right... I find it quite funny tho... gives out ranks for his students but then cant tell who gave him his rank.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

assuming much are you now? I'm a firm believer in ecclectic training. I have trained in kickboxing, boxing (im a huge, avid, boxing fan btw). You said yourself you haven't taught a karate program in 15 years... so whats the problem? Everyone else here seems to have no issue letting other users know who they learned from etc.

Actually, not everyone. You might go back and see that some others have left out parts of their lineage for privacy reasons. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to not be interested in posting that.

 

[BigJavi973]

Actually, not everyone. You might go back and see that some others have left out parts of their lineage for privacy reasons. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to not be interested in posting that.

exactly for privacy reasons

 

[Gerry Seymour]

exactly for privacy reasons

It actually doesn't matter what a person's reasons are. They have no obligation to post their lineage here. Why are you so determined to have a specific person post theirs?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Actually, not everyone. You might go back and see that some others have left out parts of their lineage for privacy reasons. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to not be interested in posting that.

I will not list any names of teachers that do not advertise. I will tell you I trained a bit with Yang Jwing Ming, Chen Zhanglei, Jesse Tsao and ever a few others. But I will not give out the name of my Yang Shifu, or the gentleman I trained Sanda with.... Neither advertise

 

[Hyoho]

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I pretty much have taken the idea from that lineage website etc Feel free to post your lineage and see where it traces to. IMO it is very important to know where your specific Martial Art comes from. You don't want to learn from someone who learned from some guy in the back of a laundromat. How you post it is up to you. You can post a picture, video desribing your lineage, or you can just type it out.

When giving the information, you do NOT have to provide their titles, example just as master, grandmaster, hanshi etc... Their names should be sufficient imo if you are taught by someone legit. A "title" does not make you legit. For example, I know a guy, that was an orange belt at the karate school I attend. At our school we dont promote fast so I guess he got frustrated and left went somewhere else.... that was like 4 years ago... all of a sudden he's being called "Master ......" I wont put his name out there not my concern but that was basically the example of how titles can be very misleading.

I'll give a quick example of my shotokan lineage:

Gichin Funakoshi ----> Teruyuki Okazaki ----> Maynard Miner ----> George Cofield ----> Thomas La Puppet Carroll ----> Victor Rodriguez ----> Maribel Ramos ----> Javier Guzman

I also train with my teacher's teacher, V. Rodriguez. He is also student of Vincent Cruz and Victor Mosquera. Those lineages goes as follows:

Gichin Funakoshi ---->Isao Obata/Hidetaka Nishiyama ----> Vincent Cruz ----> Victor Mosquera ----> Victor Rodriguez ----> Maribel Ramos ----> Javier Guzman

Here is a pic to help out further explanations:

So feel free to post and share! Maybe you'll run across someone that has trained in the same system/style you do or even from the same family tree! Osu!

So are you now the lineal descendant of Funakoshi Gichin to be able to create a tree? That's what it means. Lineage (next in line)? A successor. I thought there were around fifteen Shotokan organisations at present.

As we say in Japan. "A tree has many branches. On those branches are leaves. But the leaves fade, fall off and die.

By the way Osu means male species.

 

[BigJavi973]

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So are you now the lineal descendant of Funakoshi Gichin to be able to create a tree? That's what it means. Lineage (next in line)? A successor. I thought there were around fifteen Shotokan organisations at present.

As we say in Japan. "A tree has many branches. On those branches are leaves. But the leaves fade, fall off and die.

By the way Osu means male species.

It also means to push or to infer. Anything captain obvious?

Also show me where funakoshi sensei appointed a successor

 

[Xue Sheng]

It also means to push or to infer. Anything captain obvious?

Also show me where funakoshi sensei appointed a successor

This was asked before, but...Why so belligerent?

 

[BigJavi973]

This was asked before, but...Why so belligerent?

i didnt know stating the obvious is being belligerent

 

[Hyoho]

It also means to push or to infer. Anything captain obvious?

Also show me where funakoshi sensei appointed a successor

Well if he didn't you obviously don't have a lineage! You don't just tag yourself on to famous peoples names just because you practice something.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well if he didn't you obviously don't have a lineage! You don't just tag yourself on to famous peoples names just because you practice something.

Wait, that's what most folks here mean by "lineage" - trace your line of instructors back as far as you can. He traces his back to Funakoshi. That's not claiming to have inherited the art, nor is it tagging himself on to famous people's names.

 

[BigJavi973]

Well if he didn't you obviously don't have a lineage! You don't just tag yourself on to famous peoples names just because you practice something.

I learned my katas & kihon from my teacher... my teacher learned it from her teacher and his teacher learned.............................well im guessing you understand that concept

 

[BigJavi973]

Wait, that's what most folks here mean by "lineage" - trace your line of instructors back as far as you can. He traces his back to Funakoshi. That's not claiming to have inherited the art, nor is it tagging himself on to famous people's names.

it can even go further than that with funakoshi sensei's teachers and their teachers so on and so forth.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Seems some people are getting the word 'lineage' mixed up with "The guy I learned from".

Black belts have nothing whatsoever to do with lineage. It's either hereditary or 'complete transmission'

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So are you now the lineal descendant of Funakoshi Gichin to be able to create a tree? That's what it means. Lineage (next in line)? A successor. I thought there were around fifteen Shotokan organisations at present.

As we say in Japan. "A tree has many branches. On those branches are leaves. But the leaves fade, fall off and die.

By the way Osu means male species.

Well if he didn't you obviously don't have a lineage! You don't just tag yourself on to famous peoples names just because you practice something.

It looks like you're trying to overgeneralize a particular concept from the Japanese koryu arts onto the martial arts world in general. Most martial arts throughout the world are not proprietary packages headed up by a single leader who was "chosen as a successor" or "received complete transmission" and certainly not by one who got the title through heredity despite the fact that he might not even train in the art.

Most martial artists use the word "lineage" to identify their instructor in an art, that instructor's instructor, and so on. If they have multiple instructors, then usually the line is simplified by indicating the one they trained with the most or the one who awarded them their rank (if they train in an art which has a rank system).

If you want to insist that the English word "lineage" should only apply to heads of a ryu in a Japanese koryu sense and that no one else has a lineage ,,, you are welcome to do so, but don't expect that anyone else will necessarily go along with your idiosyncratic definition. That's not what the word means in English, either in a martial arts context or elsewhere.

 

[BigJavi973]

Most martial artists use the word "lineage" to identify their instructor in an art, that instructor's instructor, and so on. If they have multiple instructors, then usually the line is simplified by indicating the one they trained with the most or the one who awarded them their rank (if they train in an art which has a rank system).

Very well said!

 

[BigJavi973]

Buying your black belt/sash is completely different than earning one

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Very well said!

Really? Still?