Martial Sacrilege (part 1)

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Finlay, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That wasn't what he asked you.
     
  2. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    PigeonChess.jpg
    You guys probably haven't played chess with a pigeon.

    No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
     
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  3. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    it very much is, he asked if i had the standing to make my views with while, my view are always worth while
     
  4. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    So exactly how many shodan shikens (Black belt gradings) have you taken?
     
  5. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    Nothing actually wrong with it. Most gradings are done by associations. They vary and have different takes on what constitutes grades. Sadly a black belt spells money in the West.

    The biggest downfall has to be those that reach what they think is a high rank in the West then go to places like Japan and get beat up by kids. I took Japanese High school shodan to London and he fought the whole dojo and beat everybody "twice over". Nobody wants a double standard.

    So who retires? I haven't. Refined would be better word.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Why do you continue to make statements like this? That's far from universal.
     
  7. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    To me even sugesting getting old is joke. It's like comparing a human with a mosquito. The human is the old guy the young one the mosquito. You watch it buzz around like an idiot and you 'swat it'. My 74 year old sensei beat the hell out of me twice day every day and I already had Nidan taken in Japan. I think I posted this before: You get into the dojo a bit late. No one is not practicing but watching. Up the top end is an impeccably dressed guy in bogu (armour). He's fighting a guy you know to be a 7th police riot squad instructor. The other guy makes him look like begginer. They bow off and remove their armour. The visitor is in his late 70s and 9th dan. That what MA is all about. It's not boxing. It's probably what partly drew me towards it as something I can practice and teach as long as I can walk.

    It's not really reaching for the next belt either. What you have is recognition of what you already are. The dropout rate in Japan is Rokudan. Not so many that can get higher.
     
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  8. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    Of course not always. But earning money from teaching it in Japan is against the budo constitution.

    So dont you think that when money is involved it somewhat changes the outlook on what is required to make the grade?

    Not that I am saying its bad.
     
  9. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Which black belt test? In my association alone, there've been about 6 or more formats over the years... What does mine mean in someone else's? What about systems with no formal test?

    What are you trying to prove or show as "still rates" a black belt?
     
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  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    It can change it, but doesn't necessarily. I charge for classes, but never factor that into my decisions, except in deciding what price point is likely to bring the most students, because I prefer teaching groups to teaching individuals. Many instructors allow laxity at the lowest ranks to keep income up, but all the ones I know are much stricter as the student progresses, and promoting to a higher rank rarely presents much opportunity for income on a per-hour basis.
     
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Nope. You just don't want to see the point.

    Still waiting for proof that this is a problem.
     
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    What "brand?" And why do you care?
     
  13. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you have had evidence, proof is what you decieded to make of my that evidence,

    clearly you believe that tma is going from strengh to strengh, rather than my view that its in a death spiral and needs to radically change if it wants to prosper
     
  14. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    That's not how "proof" works.

    No. "Clearly" I think that a black belt, and any grading really, only means what the certifying body says that it means, regardless of what you'd really really like it to be. See the problem is that, for some inexplicable reason, you think you should get to dictate to thousands of organizations around the world what their standards for grading should be, and your standards are apparently based on some caricature of "black belt." Yeah, good luck with that.

    You want gradings to mean something else? Start your own danged organization.
     
  15. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    that's exactly how proof works, no body has proof ! they just have evidence , proof is if the jury, or in this case you choose to believe that evidence.
     
  16. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Had to come back in here and fix this. @Tony Dismukes since I was afraid on reading this again that it might look as if I was accusing you of wanting to demote my GM in his own style. That was directed at jobo. I just wanted to clarify/correct any misunderstanding. Sorry if anyone did misunderstand. Sometimes I think faster than I type; a wonder to behold.
     
  17. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    No worries. I understood from context who you were talking to.
     
  18. Zombocalypse

    Zombocalypse Green Belt

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    OP, I think you raised some very good questions. I like it.

    I'm not a martial artist. I have very little experience in fighting and martial arts so I can't really say much with regards to the legitimacy of belts. But I will say this...

    I believe in the value of sparring. I believe that sparring is as important as "drills", if I may call them that. Sparring is as close you can get with simulating a real match, and that is priceless. It is the same mentality in weightlifting and powerlifting. In weightlifting, for example, you don't waste your time doing **** like curls or upright rows. You train for attributes that are applicable for your event. Which means squats, deadlifts, and overhead presses and etcetera. And NO to tricep extensions and concentration curls. The value of sparring is as important as power cleans are with weightlifting (OLYMPIC).

    I think belts should be eliminated from the whole system and replaced with "records". It's a radical idea, I know. But I'm a radical man. I believe that martial artists should be judged by two things: How many valid matches they've had and how often they won. I believe that such a barometer is a much more accurate way of gauging the fighter's competence level much more so than a belt.

    Sparring with others should count as legitimate matches and their results should be recorded. And then use those records to give a proper title to the fighter.

    But like I said, I'm a radical man with radical ideas.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    that is radical, if you only gave rank to those who could win fights, then a good fifty % of current black belts wouldn't be, that sounds like it will be less popular than my relegation strategy?
     
  20. lklawson

    lklawson Senior Master

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    Nope. Proof is NOT what I decide "to make of" "your evidence."

    That's not how proof works.
     

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