Martial arts you quit , early ???

[skribs]

At my spot, they don't even want you kicking too high at lower belts, even if you can.

I was mainly speaking of forms and technical demonstration, but you're right - no head shots until black belt (or red belt for teens and adults).

 

[Earl Weiss]

The Chang Hon forms do specify targets (low/med/high section) for kicks, ............................ Perhaps @Earl Weiss will chime in and tell us if not being able to kick 6' in the air would prevent you from earning rank in the ITF, .......

The levels are even more specific. Since 1972 the term "Section" was eliminated for solo / pattern practice. "Section" Denotes and area or range. Terminology was refined to simply State (with exceptions) "High" "Medium" or "Low" with (There are exceptions) High =Eye, Medium = Shoulder, and Low = Umbilicus (All in relation to the performers on body) If physical limitations prevent something the issue would simply be does the person know the correct standard, and inability to kick above a certain level in and of itself will not prevent achievement of any specific rank.

 

[dvcochran]

The Chang Hon forms do specify targets (low/med/high section) for kicks, but the taegeuk and palgwae systems do not. And while not hitting the head high target zone will result in a lower score, it wouldn't prevent your from passing, assuming you performed the rest of the pattern to a reasonable standard. I don't know about other systems, but I suspect not. Perhaps @Earl Weiss will chime in and tell us if not being able to kick 6' in the air would prevent you from earning rank in the ITF, but I can assure you that you can earn Dan ranks in KKW and MDK TKD without doing the splits.

To clarify, it sounds like you are saying there are Not specific target areas for kicks (and punches?) in Taeguek and Palgwae form sets. Am I reading you correctly?

 

[donald1]

At my spot, they don't even want you kicking too high at lower belts, even if you can.

That see like such an odd thing to discourage. If you can head kick early on that's great! I understand many people won't, but still...

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

That see like such an odd thing to discourage. If you can head kick early on that's great! I understand many people won't, but still...

If you're concerned people will kick too high and injure themselves, I can see why you would prevent it until they learn proper form. Not sure if I would agree with the policy, but I can certainly understand its logic.

 

[skribs]

That see like such an odd thing to discourage. If you can head kick early on that's great! I understand many people won't, but still...

As far as I can tell, there's a few reasons for this: fairness and safety.

Fairness: Someone who is a beginner, around 6 months of time, most likely will not have the flexibility and technique to do so yet. We want to build their confidence to keep them training, not have them be so outmatched by someone who comes in already flexible, who can make those headshots with ease. I believe a lot of grappling competitions don't allow leg locks at lower belt levels for this same reason.

Safety: There are numerous safety considerations. @kempodisciple brings up one of not injuring yourself, but there are a few others:

1. Someone who is still learning the techniques may not have the control with them yet. This is especially true of kids who are still learning to moderate their motions, or of teenagers who are just learning how big and strong they actually are. Kicks are pretty strong, and if you can kick to the head, you can easily cause a concussion.
2. Along the lines of fairness, someone who is just starting out won't have the defenses built up to protect their head, and will take a lot of unnecessary head hits. Even those hits that an advanced fighter takes, they will be better able to mitigate the damage by rolling with the kick.

I'm trying not to be "that guy" who says his art is too deadly to practice on a real opponent, but kicks, punches, and grappling all have different levels of intensity at which you can practice them on another opponent. With an art like BJJ or Wrestling, you can pretty much go all-out safely, since in BJJ your partner will tap before they get injured, and in wrestling any moves that will potentially cause damage are basically banned. With an art like boxing, you're using punches (which are weaker than most kicks), and people tend to be more dexterous with their arms coming in. With Taekwondo, you're using a very hard-hitting weapon, and if you don't have control over it you can seriously hurt someone.

 

[Dirty Dog]

To clarify, it sounds like you are saying there are Not specific target areas for kicks (and punches?) in Taeguek and Palgwae form sets. Am I reading you correctly?

Punches are generally specified, but kicks are not. There are exceptions, such as Koryo, but they're pretty rare.

 

[skribs]

Punches are generally specified, but kicks are not. There are exceptions, such as Koryo, but they're pretty rare.

I just thought that (in most cases) you're supposed to kick as high as you could.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I just thought that (in most cases) you're supposed to kick as high as you could.

That's the general habit. Koryo specifically calls for a low kick followed by a mid section kick, but this is generally actually done as a low kick and as high as you can kick. I don't think any of the other KKW forms specify any targets for kicks.

 

[skribs]

That's the general habit. Koryo specifically calls for a low kick followed by a mid section kick, but this is generally actually done as a low kick and as high as you can kick. I don't think any of the other KKW forms specify any targets for kicks.

I was going to disagree, then I realized that the form I was thinking of was our alternate version of Keumgang, which features a triple side kick (low middle high).

 

[Dirty Dog]

I was going to disagree, then I realized that the form I was thinking of was our alternate version of Keumgang, which features a triple side kick (low middle high).

Yeah. Because that's not Keumgang. Maybe Keumgangish? There are no kicks in Keumgang.

 

[skribs]

Yeah. Because that's not Keumgang. Maybe Keumgangish? There are no kicks in Keumgang.

The form starts and ends like Kuemgang, but there's a whole middle section added. We train both the official and alternate versions at my school (same for Koryo and Taebaek, and I think the same for Pyongwon, but I haven't learned that one yet).

But I was just thinking "I know we do a triple side kick" and then remembered it wasn't one of the KKW forms.

 

[dvcochran]

That's the general habit. Koryo specifically calls for a low kick followed by a mid section kick, but this is generally actually done as a low kick and as high as you can kick. I don't think any of the other KKW forms specify any targets for kicks.

I agree with the Koryo explanation.
It is frustratingly hard to find consistent written descriptions of KKW forms. By watching the forms on the Kukkiwon or WT website you can see the target areas. We are fortunate our GM is on the steering committee.

I do not like the "kick as high as you can" party line mantra that a lot of schools use. We clearly define target areas. Alternate areas are explained for it/when a person cannot kick head level. Any higher is futile for most people IMHO. The exception is for competition.

 

[Prostar]

I retired after 35 years in martial arts. It still feels like it was too soon.

 

[pdg]

I agree with the Koryo explanation.
It is frustratingly hard to find consistent written descriptions of KKW forms. By watching the forms on the Kukkiwon or WT website you can see the target areas. We are fortunate our GM is on the steering committee.

I do not like the "kick as high as you can" party line mantra that a lot of schools use. We clearly define target areas. Alternate areas are explained for it/when a person cannot kick head level. Any higher is futile for most people IMHO. The exception is for competition.

In the ITF/CH patterns, every kick (and every punch - and actually every block too) has a specified target area / height zone.

In competition, kicking higher than specified will lose you points (say you do a high turning kick when the description calls for mid). Kicking lower will as well, but allowances can be made in certain circumstances.

 

[dvcochran]

I retired after 35 years in martial arts. It still feels like it was too soon.

I hope you remember you can always come back to it(MA). We may never be what we once were physically but our mental dividends are far more important.

 

[dvcochran]

That's the general habit. Koryo specifically calls for a low kick followed by a mid section kick, but this is generally actually done as a low kick and as high as you can kick. I don't think any of the other KKW forms specify any targets for kicks.

I had a chance to confirm; in WT competition the targets for the side kicks in Koryo are a middle check and head level.
No points deduction for kicking too high however too low on either kick are reason for points deduction.

This tracks with what we teach. For people who struggle with high kicks we teach a knee/thigh check and solar plexus kick.