Martial arts creates Violence? Say Yes or No

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by pulsescarborough, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    The majority of martial artists aren't violent because it gives you a safe outlet for aggression. It's better to hit a bag than a person
     
  2. Reedone816

    Reedone816 Blue Belt

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    Well, controlled violence means, violence that is following the law/custom.
    Or know when to start and when to stop.
    Is constructive when learning martial art.
    Police restraining criminal.
    People do sparring.
    Etc.

    Sent from my BV8000Pro using Tapatalk
     
  3. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Violence exists with or without MA. It is not the root of violence but solely a tool that some violent people might use.
     
  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I think the problem here is that people think violence is bad. And it's because of this idea that all violence is bad which is skewing everyone's perspective of "Do You think Martial arts creates Violence?"

    Not all violence is bad and in more cases than not, violence is actually healthy. There's violence in soccer(futbol), basketball, boxing, MMA, Fencing, Point Sparring, Martial Arts Training (conditioning and bruising). There's violence in Lacrosse, muay thai, wrestling (of all types). Even young kids use violence in play.

    Here's one definition of Violence "the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy"
    Here's another definition of Violence "intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force"

    Does martial arts create violence. Yes it can, No it doesn't always have to.

    I'm not sure why so many Martial Artist run away from violence, when their martial arts system teaches violent techniques. Violence by itself is not bad or negative. If you have ever gone fishing then you have created violence. If you have ever had to physically defend yourself from an attack. Then you have created violence.

    Embrace violence and understand it for what it is. That violence alone is neither good nor bad by default. It is an action. It's the context of what we do with that action which determines the value of violence that we created.

    This is the balance one should have with their Martial Arts training. Just because you train violence doesn't mean you commit violence. Just because you create violence doesn't mean you do so in a negative way. I've personally have had more injuries and bruises from martial arts training than I have ever had from real fights in the street. The bruises that I got from training didn't come from me being "non-violent." Just my 70 cent perspective.
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    It terms of violence it's probably more about the context in which the violence exists. We can look at this from the perspective of a gun. Does it matter if I get shot by accident or on purpose. A gun shot is still a gun shot. This is true but the context in which I got shot is not.

    When a father spanks his child, is that the same violence that the father would use in an effort to protect his child from being attacked by another adult?

    Is violence done out of love the same as violence done out of hate? Context is everything.
     
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  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    There isn't supposed to be violence in football.



    If you love someone you would not use violence against them full stop.
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    ha ha ha. There isn't supposed to be acting either lol.

    Like many things in life, things aren't black in white and that context is everything. There's a difference between disciplining a child and beating up a spouse.
     
  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, there isn't. If you wouldn't discipline an adult by hitting then why do it to a child. There's never an excuse for using violence on a child.
     
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    ummm. who said I wouldn't discipline an adult by hitting them?
     
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  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    then you would be committing the criminal offence of assault.
     
  12. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    I think that's the key in this conversation. There's been a shift in the spanking culture, at least in the US. If you look at the older generations that were spanked, a lot of them are more mannered than the younger generation. However, I think people make a false causation between a decrease in spanking and the increase in rowdy kids. Personally, I think it has more to do with parenting as a whole. Many parents used to teach values to kids and used spanking as a disciplinary method when necessary. Today I think the values are where it's lacking the most. A lot of parents today just spank without instilling the values the previous generation did and that's where I think a lot of the problems stem from.

    What I've witnessed is a lot of parents spank their children out of frustration more than out of a means of disciplining them. It's a horrific thing, but I think some parents have convinced themselves that they are only doing it to teach their child, but they fail to realize the underlying issue of it being a release for the parents frustration.

    It's also important to note how many experts say your shouldn't spank your children. I think people get defensive when it's discussed, especially if they were spanked as a child. It's not to say they were raised by bad parents, just that more information is available today than there used to be. I've never understood parents who brag about how they spank their kids. The pride in their voice is indicative to a certain amount of satisfaction they get from doing so, which I think is troublesome.
     
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  13. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    For the record, I don't think there's any reason to smack anyone.

    That said, this was a funny response.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    My experience (and I'm very interested if anyone has any links to studies and such) is that the millennials who were largely parented by boomers, were coddled. The new crop of kids I've seen, who were born in the late 90s and parented by Gen-Xers (mainly) are pretty damned cool. I've seen them called iGen or Gen Z, but they're just now beginning to enter into the workforce, and my experience with them so far has been terrific. The kids from Parkland are a great example of what I'm talking about.
     
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  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Actually from what I've seen recently a great many young Americans have superb values and I would be very proud of them. They are the future and it looks a lot brighter now.
     
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  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    How is disciplining a child being defined here?

    If it's using the open hand equivalent of 5 lashes after finding out they've done wrong, no, I don't do that. I don't agree with it either.

    I have however used contact as a means to instill discipline...

    Context:

    We've never required child safety catches on our kitchen cupboards, because a swift wrist slap a couple of times meant they knew not to venture in there - even now, being 9 and nearly 6, they will happily help themselves to plates/bowls/cups and the like, but know not to go in the doors and drawers we tell them not to.

    Walking to school in the morning, they'll walk/skip/jog along the path and stop and wait at the side of the road. The first couple of times they tried to wriggle out of hand grip and run out on the road they got a slap. Now I can trust them and not need to hold hands to stop them. I believe that has contributed to them being two of very few children at their school who will do as they're told. (Compare that to the woman down the road who slaps her kids all the time, I think they're desensitised to the extent they just don't listen and do what they want, running all over the road on the way to school while she shouts and screams and pulls and slaps, then they carry on anyway - or another parent I've seen where her kid was eating dirt, she was all "oh Johnny, don't do that" in the stereotypical whiney voice, and her kid just laughed and carried on.)

    Up to a certain age (non specific, it's individual) I believe kids don't have the mental capacity to take heed of a lecture (linguistic limitations for one thing), but are fully capable of comprehending when asked "Did that slap hurt a bit? What do you think it'd feel like if someone hit you with a car?" And even before that, in the kitchen cupboard example, conditioning the response "open door = sharp slap" only takes a couple of instances and doesn't need continual reinforcement.
     
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  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    So slapping them teaches them not to touch something..... really? I've always found a sharp stern 'no' does the job, well it did with mine and the hundreds of kids I've had to do that with. Causing pain doesn't actually teach much to children or animals other than their parents hurt them when they want them to learn something. Of course it worked, if someone punched you in the face every time you did something wrong when you were learning to drive for example you'd learn PDQ.

    Between Scouting, Guiding and martial arts I managed to 'discipline' hundreds maybe even a thousand kids without slapping on of them including my own two. I've also trained horses and puppies without hitting them, amazing isn't it. Even more amazing is that there's many more people like me.
     
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  18. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    EXACTLY!
     
  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Depends on where you live.
     
  20. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Just being honest. lol. Someone told me that God doesn't make mistakes, so here I am lol.
     

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