Martial Arts Aren't Magic

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Anarax, Dec 8, 2017.

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  1. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Looking through this post it seems the op thinks that everyone should share the same values and opinions that he does. Well no buddy sorry it doesn't work that way. If martial art schools only accepted people who were extremely dedicated then there'd be maybe 5 or 6 in each club. The majority of kids In kids classes simply don't care about martial arts. It's a little hobby for them after school. Same with adults it's something to do after work to keep active. They simply don't care about being amazing martial artists and that's absoloutely fine. You're dedicated to it good on you but your way isn't the only way and frankly thinking that everyone /should/ be taking it as seriously as you sounds very arrogant in my eyes.

    Why do you even care about what other people do..just get on with your own stuff and let them do there's.
     
  2. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    How the heck did this thread get into more of this pro fighter self defence multiple attacker bs
     
  3. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    No one is saying it's not overwhelimg odds. What I am saying is the best way to preapre for multiple opponents is to practice trainig against multiple opponents, rather than training to deal with one opponent and then have no idea, no skills and no training to deal with multiple opponents.
     
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  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    There's only 1 way to deal with multiple opponents. Run like hell. Anything else is pretty much a waste of time because it simply won't work. It's pretty much impossible to beat more than 3 guys on your own
     
  5. Paul_D

    Paul_D Master Black Belt

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    Ok, I give up.

    Clearly the best way to prepare for multiplie opponents is to never train to deal with multiple opponents. The best way to train to deal with weapons is to never train to deal with weapons. Instead just take up MMA because it covers everything to do with SD that anyone could ever need.

    Goodbye
     
  6. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Um okay bye then...I didn't actually say a thing about mma at all but okay
     
  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree with that premise. The tone of previous posts sounded to me - and perhaps to others - as if that training would make 7-1 reasonable odds. If that wasn't your intention, no harm done.
     
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I avoid the word "impossible", because someone will show me an example or two. But I agree with the basic tone and intent of your post.
     
  9. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    I don't know where I generalized or painted with a broad brush.
     
  10. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    His assertion was the pro fighter failed because of his training. Mine was there are a lot of a professional fighter's skills that can applied fighting multiple opponents and there are multiple videos illustrating that. Him finding one video to try and prove his point, but ignoring so many others that provide a counter point is what I objected to. Is training for multiple opponents useful? Absolutely. Does that mean pro fighters can't defend themselves against multiple opponents? No.
     
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  11. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    Absolutely not, I posted to start a discussion. Replying to other people's posts to clarify my position isn't to say your wrong and I'm right. If someone's makes illogical assertions or generalizes then I reply as well. However; that's not to say if you disagree with me you're illogical, but some are illogical in how they come to their conclusions. Exploring how some come to their conclusions and replying isn't saying "you must agree with me." I posted what I've seen first hand and wanted to know other people's view of what they've seen. Clarifying my stance and replying in a respectful manner isn't arrogant either. I've already stated I don't say anything to the other students who train in that manner. I'm not the student telling everybody in class they're "training wrong".
     
  12. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I partly disagree. I've been teaching Fighting Multiples for years now. To students, Leos and security forces. Unfortunately [but fortunately from an instructor's viewpoint] I've experienced it first hand. Been in too many melees, riots and crowd control to remember them all.

    But there's a caveat to this. First, you have to know how to fight going in. If you have no idea how to fight, what I can teach you is limited to information only. You know, a nice little week long course where you had some fun. But, if you know how to fight to start with - that's an entirely different story.

    There are some oddities to this, at least in my experience. I've always found it easier to fight three people as opposed to two. And the smaller the space you use, the better off you are. Natural instinct tells us to move, create space. But you want just the opposite. You want to close, to move in, always. You vortex them, using position and the taking away of their space.

    And here's another couple of caveats. If you are fighting three people who have a plan, and have done this before, you just might have a bad day. But most instances of multiple against one person aren't usually planned.

    If you are hit first, especially if you didn't see it coming, you might be in trouble. But if you already know how to fight, getting hit first is just another day of taking a hit. Getting into a real fight and learning how to take a hit, really shouldn't happen on the same day.

    And it depends on who we're talking about. I can't really run well any more. Eventually, they'll catch me, and I'll be tired and out of position, and breath, when they do. Advantage them.
    But if I dictate when we start, advantage me.
     
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  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah but marines don't win at that sneaker course either. So again it was not a case of specialized training winning that situation either.
     
  14. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    I get the occasional one of those. The first no-change they get on a promotional testing is a bucket of cold water in the face.
     
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  15. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    It seems to me sir your opinion is a bit narrow. One head doctors opinion of the younger population is in no ways concrete evidence. Especially in the U.S. violence is regional, yes that means mortal violence. If you are referring to the McDojo concept of teaching MA then I agree that a lot of your argument has merit. What any good instructor will do is to stretch a student, not only physically but mentally. This is vital when teaching younger students. Teach them adversity and failure. Teach them what fear feels like and how to deal with it. Make certain you explain this to parents. The best saying my GM says is "something that is always bad is bad, something that is always good is bad, it takes a healthy balance of both to understand how to appreciate the good in something (I'm paraphrasing). Your argument has merit when speaking about the general population. But do you want your Dojo/Dojang to be full of the bland general population. We teach to be exceptional. If we do not teach this way and believe it we are not fulfilling our obligation to the MA community.
    You also cannot start out arguing generalities then be specific and point out 15-16 year olds. If that is part of your argument then I am going to say spend a day in a children's hospital. Then you will see just how much children can understand about mortality.
     
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  16. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    It usually does:(
     
  17. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    As far as Japan is concerned: Again your premise is based on a Western concept. In the country it comes from? It's little league. That's how it survived WWll. To be reinstituted after a five year suspension as a cultural sportlike tradition. No way will a dojo have "bland population". It far too intense. At least it should be! Will everbody be good. I dont really mind as long as the try their best and at
    least one of them will be good enough to carry the flag for me.
     
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  18. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    You are 100% correct. My opinion is both "general" and regional. I have not travel around the globe to get cross section as a reference for my thoughts on this issue. I can say I have been been exposed to maybe a hundred schools or more in my regional location. Not one school addresses actual violence other than lip service on how to deal with an imaginary bully or the usual "don't talk to strangers". It is not until the age of about 15 when the child is allowed to join the adult classes that violence is addressed in an adult manner. Things are different in other parts of the world. It is a mistake to think otherwise. Perhaps I failed a bit in this respect but I stand by my original premise.
    Which I should add was a specific response to someone's comment.
    For a child, superficial understanding of violence is one matter. Having the full emotional understanding and capacity , empathy, apathy, and the maturity to work on these topics in a class is somthing different
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    your point NOW is that under 15s don't get schooled in violence at their ma class. Your point previously was that under 15s don't have the capacity to understand the concept of violence, this is not the same thing.
     
  20. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    I guess we had better tell that one to people like my father that went off to Africa at the outset of WWll aged fifteen. He lied about his age so that he could go.

    Probably before fifteen was the most violent part of my life. I was constantly bullied until I realized I had a certain natural ability. After that with training it became and still is controlled violence.
     

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